The Trinity Doctrine in the Bible
- Thread starter S3RV4NT
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here’s the thing, you can read the Bible and come to a lot of conclusions that don’t matter. Not every verse in the Bible needs to be understood clearly, just the ones about our Salvation. I can tell you probably agree with that.
My biggest problem with Sola Scriptura is that it fails Christians in that regard. Baptism, Justification, Eucharist, Repentance of Sins, Original Sin, the Canon of Scripture...all are necessary things to understand to arrive at our understanding of how someone is saved.
Yet men of God all over the world go to the Bible alone and can’t agree on these central things. God did better for us than that. He gave use a Church to guide us to the understanding we need to be saved.
My biggest problem with Sola Scriptura is that it fails Christians in that regard. Baptism, Justification, Eucharist, Repentance of Sins, Original Sin, the Canon of Scripture...all are necessary things to understand to arrive at our understanding of how someone is saved.
Yet men of God all over the world go to the Bible alone and can’t agree on these central things. God did better for us than that. He gave use a Church to guide us to the understanding we need to be saved.
B
No I do not agree with this.
While I agree with Baptism, Justification, Eucharist, repentance of sin, and Original sin are necessary to understand. It is through scripture that we understand these things.
To an extent I agree here. The problem is that "the Church" has proven itself to be easily swayed by it's leaders to no biblical ideas. The Church has to be regulated by written scripture, and anything a church leader says needs to be compared to scripture before accepted. The barean church is am exemplification.
While I agree with Baptism, Justification, Eucharist, repentance of sin, and Original sin are necessary to understand. It is through scripture that we understand these things.
To an extent I agree here. The problem is that "the Church" has proven itself to be easily swayed by it's leaders to no biblical ideas. The Church has to be regulated by written scripture, and anything a church leader says needs to be compared to scripture before accepted. The barean church is am exemplification.
The Word WAS/IS God and God WAS/IS The Word.
Taken from your OWN quote. Does this match YOUR Trinity diagram?
NO, it does not.
The FLASH point of creation? BIG BANG heresy and blasphemy of science-so-called?
Again, you are proving ONENESS, not Trinity. They are the same person, NOT 'distinct' from one another.
Wrong.
In Mark 12:28-30, Jesus states that the most important aspect of all of scripture is this: "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" that is ONE 'HE' entity. NOT 3 PERSONS in one as Trinity claims.
God is ONE PRONOUN, NOT one "it/thing", NOT one 'Unity/Union" ... ONE GOD. One person. Period.
Apparently He does in some way.
The Father is 'spirit' ...
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in Truth." (John 4:24)
...He exists in a higher vibrational dimension where there is no time because time is a created thing. If God created TIME, then it does not exist where He exists.
"...one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."(2 Pet. 3:8) This means there is no concept of 'TIME' where He exists.
...He also sees the end from the beginning for this reason.
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, ..."(Is. 46:10)
Jesus Christ was 'in-the-flesh' when He prayed to the Father. That means He, at that time, existed in a lower vibrational dimension and was thus 'less' than the Father. He even claims that He was not yet ascended which proves that He was 'less' than the Father at that time. Once He was again Glorified, He was again just as the Father is.
Before His crucifixion, Jesus prayed this prayer to the Father:
"And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." (John 17:5)
No. Jesus does not lie. The Father was greater at that moment. The Father was in the spirit and glorified, Jesus was in the flesh.
God sent Himself into the flesh ... into His own story. The Author stepped onto the stage for a time to clarify Himself and to be an example to all who would follow Him to the end of time. God wrote the Bible, and gave guidance in every way imaginable, to save His beloved elect from the attempts of 'death' to destroy His creation and His plan.
Yes, He did. And, once glorified, He sent the Spirit of the Father and Son (which 'IS' the Father and Son - unlike Trinity) to those He so chose. For whatever reason, He could/would not do that before He was once again ONE, and glorified, with the Father.
This also proves ONENESS in that IF the Father, Son and HG were 'separate' ,'distinct' persons, the HG could have been sent while Jesus was in the flesh upon the earth. It could not be.
Your own Trinity doctrine claims that 'right hand' is simply an affirmation of equality with the Father.
https://www.gcu.edu/blog/theology-m... Father&text=The “right hand” is seen,7:55-56).
I tend to agree.
The second part of that question has already been answered.
In my research and study of the Bible, I have come to the conclusion that the lion and the Lamb are not the same person, and they are NOT both God. That is a topic for an entire 'nother thread altogether.
The rest of your post has been answered above.
Taken from your OWN quote. Does this match YOUR Trinity diagram?
NO, it does not.
The FLASH point of creation? BIG BANG heresy and blasphemy of science-so-called?
Again, you are proving ONENESS, not Trinity. They are the same person, NOT 'distinct' from one another.
Wrong.
In Mark 12:28-30, Jesus states that the most important aspect of all of scripture is this: "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" that is ONE 'HE' entity. NOT 3 PERSONS in one as Trinity claims.
God is ONE PRONOUN, NOT one "it/thing", NOT one 'Unity/Union" ... ONE GOD. One person. Period.
Apparently He does in some way.
The Father is 'spirit' ...
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in Truth." (John 4:24)
...He exists in a higher vibrational dimension where there is no time because time is a created thing. If God created TIME, then it does not exist where He exists.
"...one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."(2 Pet. 3:8) This means there is no concept of 'TIME' where He exists.
...He also sees the end from the beginning for this reason.
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, ..."(Is. 46:10)
Jesus Christ was 'in-the-flesh' when He prayed to the Father. That means He, at that time, existed in a lower vibrational dimension and was thus 'less' than the Father. He even claims that He was not yet ascended which proves that He was 'less' than the Father at that time. Once He was again Glorified, He was again just as the Father is.
Before His crucifixion, Jesus prayed this prayer to the Father:
"And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." (John 17:5)
No. Jesus does not lie. The Father was greater at that moment. The Father was in the spirit and glorified, Jesus was in the flesh.
God sent Himself into the flesh ... into His own story. The Author stepped onto the stage for a time to clarify Himself and to be an example to all who would follow Him to the end of time. God wrote the Bible, and gave guidance in every way imaginable, to save His beloved elect from the attempts of 'death' to destroy His creation and His plan.
Yes, He did. And, once glorified, He sent the Spirit of the Father and Son (which 'IS' the Father and Son - unlike Trinity) to those He so chose. For whatever reason, He could/would not do that before He was once again ONE, and glorified, with the Father.
This also proves ONENESS in that IF the Father, Son and HG were 'separate' ,'distinct' persons, the HG could have been sent while Jesus was in the flesh upon the earth. It could not be.
Your own Trinity doctrine claims that 'right hand' is simply an affirmation of equality with the Father.
https://www.gcu.edu/blog/theology-m... Father&text=The “right hand” is seen,7:55-56).
I tend to agree.
The second part of that question has already been answered.
In my research and study of the Bible, I have come to the conclusion that the lion and the Lamb are not the same person, and they are NOT both God. That is a topic for an entire 'nother thread altogether.
The rest of your post has been answered above.
Bamapapist and the red X troll (the one calling us heretical worms 
) are both banned now...
Thank you, @Oncefallen
) are both banned now...Thank you, @Oncefallen
-
5
- Show all
With respect, it is not.
The Father does now, and always has, existed OUTSIDE of time and space (i.e. matter). For He created them. Therefore, the Creator cannot originate, or exist, within His creation.
Verses that prove this:
"...beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pet. 3:8)
Many claim this proves that a day to God is as a thousand years to US, but they stop there. They do not ever quote the rest of the verse.
One day upon the earth is as a thousand years to God, AND a thousand years upon the earth is as ONE DAY to God.
Thus, 2 Peter 3:8 is claiming that God exists outside of time. Observe:
"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." (Psalm 90:4) Because God exists, and observes the earth dimension/realm, from OUTSIDE of time.
Our world is made up of 3 dimensions. Space, Time and Matter. God's dimension is NOT. There is no space, because space is relevant to matter. There is no time for the same reason and there is no matter. Everything is spirit.
Therefore, God the Father is in the realm of spirit when He speaks to Jesus (who is in the flesh, in the world of matter at that time). God sends His spirit to Jesus to help Him to finish out His ministry upon the earth. This did not take God out of the spirit realm because there is no time in that realm. Meaning God exists there eternally, before AND after the moment of Jesus' baptism.
Thus, these are not THREE SEPARATE and DISTINCT persons. They are ONE.
When Jesus was glorified after His crucifixion, He returned to the Father from whence He originated to AGAIN be ONE with Him as He was before creation.
Jesus' prayer to His Father before His crucifixion:
"And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." (John 17:5)
The doctrine of the Trinity is "TAUGHT" nowhere in scripture.
Not by God...
Not by Moses...
Not by Jesus...
Not by ANY disciple...
Not by ANY apostle.
Any verse that describes God in multiple ways IS NOT proof of the Trinity TEACHING.
The Father does now, and always has, existed OUTSIDE of time and space (i.e. matter). For He created them. Therefore, the Creator cannot originate, or exist, within His creation.
Verses that prove this:
"...beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pet. 3:8)
Many claim this proves that a day to God is as a thousand years to US, but they stop there. They do not ever quote the rest of the verse.
One day upon the earth is as a thousand years to God, AND a thousand years upon the earth is as ONE DAY to God.
Thus, 2 Peter 3:8 is claiming that God exists outside of time. Observe:
"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." (Psalm 90:4) Because God exists, and observes the earth dimension/realm, from OUTSIDE of time.
Our world is made up of 3 dimensions. Space, Time and Matter. God's dimension is NOT. There is no space, because space is relevant to matter. There is no time for the same reason and there is no matter. Everything is spirit.
Therefore, God the Father is in the realm of spirit when He speaks to Jesus (who is in the flesh, in the world of matter at that time). God sends His spirit to Jesus to help Him to finish out His ministry upon the earth. This did not take God out of the spirit realm because there is no time in that realm. Meaning God exists there eternally, before AND after the moment of Jesus' baptism.
Thus, these are not THREE SEPARATE and DISTINCT persons. They are ONE.
When Jesus was glorified after His crucifixion, He returned to the Father from whence He originated to AGAIN be ONE with Him as He was before creation.
Jesus' prayer to His Father before His crucifixion:
"And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." (John 17:5)
The doctrine of the Trinity is "TAUGHT" nowhere in scripture.
Not by God...
Not by Moses...
Not by Jesus...
Not by ANY disciple...
Not by ANY apostle.
Any verse that describes God in multiple ways IS NOT proof of the Trinity TEACHING.
You are on the right track and you are honest about your perception. That is a great sign.
Keep questioning and keep studying and keep praying and researching God's Word. Trust the Bible first over any church or pastor/preacher.
"...the Holy Spirit which you have received from God lives in you, and you need NO MAN to teach you anything: the Holy Spirit teaches you all things, and is The Truth, and is not a lie, and as it continues to teach you, you will live in Christ." (1 John 2:27)
Keep questioning and keep studying and keep praying and researching God's Word. Trust the Bible first over any church or pastor/preacher.
"...the Holy Spirit which you have received from God lives in you, and you need NO MAN to teach you anything: the Holy Spirit teaches you all things, and is The Truth, and is not a lie, and as it continues to teach you, you will live in Christ." (1 John 2:27)
This verse is referred to as the Johannine Comma. It is the most highly debated verse in all of scripture as to its authenticity.
Many life-long adherents and scholars of God's Word believe it to be an added verse by the early Roman Catholic Church.
Regardless, it does not EXPLAIN or TEACH the doctrine of the Trinity. There are over 31 THOUSAND verses in the Bible. When people bring out Matt. 28:19 OR 1 Jn. 5:7-8, and insist that these are the final word on a man-made doctrine, it clearly exposes the woefully lacking evidence of the extra-biblical doctrine of the Trinity within scripture.
For the record, these are 3 aspects/characteristics of God, BUT they are ALL GOD.
Me, myself and I are ALL ME. Me is myself, myself is I and I is Me.
This contradicts the Trinity statement that they are not each other, and that they are separate persons within the Godhead.
The Holy Spirit IS the Father AND IS the Son.
Many life-long adherents and scholars of God's Word believe it to be an added verse by the early Roman Catholic Church.
Regardless, it does not EXPLAIN or TEACH the doctrine of the Trinity. There are over 31 THOUSAND verses in the Bible. When people bring out Matt. 28:19 OR 1 Jn. 5:7-8, and insist that these are the final word on a man-made doctrine, it clearly exposes the woefully lacking evidence of the extra-biblical doctrine of the Trinity within scripture.
For the record, these are 3 aspects/characteristics of God, BUT they are ALL GOD.
Me, myself and I are ALL ME. Me is myself, myself is I and I is Me.
This contradicts the Trinity statement that they are not each other, and that they are separate persons within the Godhead.
The Holy Spirit IS the Father AND IS the Son.
He didn't inhabit space and time until He was born in the flesh. Therefore He didn't inhabit the world WHILE He was creating it, His physical body did not exist yet.
He was in the world during His physical life upon the earth.
The world WAS made by Him, but NOT while He was physically in it. Kind of a catch-22 there. Can't be inside something that doesn't exist yet. God is eternal, the world is not. God existed eternally before the world and will exist for eternity after the world.
The world (people in the world) knew Him not during the time of His physical existence upon the earth; besides those He chose to reveal Himself to.
Yes, the essence of Jesus is the Creator and yes, Jesus did exist within His creation for a time. The Father was outside of the 3-dimensional world at the time of Jesus' baptism, thus He was not a SEPARATE entity who was present at Jesus' baptism. Jesus and God are one and the same. They are of the same essence.
He was in the world during His physical life upon the earth.
The world WAS made by Him, but NOT while He was physically in it. Kind of a catch-22 there. Can't be inside something that doesn't exist yet. God is eternal, the world is not. God existed eternally before the world and will exist for eternity after the world.
The world (people in the world) knew Him not during the time of His physical existence upon the earth; besides those He chose to reveal Himself to.
Yes, the essence of Jesus is the Creator and yes, Jesus did exist within His creation for a time. The Father was outside of the 3-dimensional world at the time of Jesus' baptism, thus He was not a SEPARATE entity who was present at Jesus' baptism. Jesus and God are one and the same. They are of the same essence.
-
1
- Show all