Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#141
#141
tanakh said:
You are entitled to your opinion. But there are a few queries I have about it.

1 Israel may well be allied to you but so is Turkey and the rest of Nato including my own country (UK) they have a different take on the events enfolding at present. Are you suggesting that your other allies are unable or unwilling to share help and information as to what is happening ?

2 ''God told me'' I am rather skeptical about those who say this. Why? because my first thought is how come they have a personal hotline to God that myself as a born again Christian hasn't got. It appears that in addition to having faith in God I require additional faith that you are up there with the Biblical prophets receiving these inspired revelations.
Click to expand...

God told you too, it's in the Bible, look it up!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#142
#142
surfer14 said:
ON JUNE 8, 1967, while patrolling in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel.

https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
Click to expand...

Ok brother, you know this is one of those areas where we clash. This is literally found on every white supremacist website. It was a mistake, the Jews made reparations with the families and with the US gov't. It's not like Pearl Harbor, but it's being represented that way. This is false.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#143
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#143
CS1 said:
Ok,

please don't assume one's support is an endorsement of sin. I support the POTUS yet I do not endorse Joe Biden. Office over person

People over national leaders. I too believe praying for the peace of Isreal is in the word of God :).
Click to expand...
There wont be peace, but a future Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist who will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent, as Jerusalem will be the focal point of the world

The (Two Witnesses) of Revelation 11 will stand against this evil man in Jerusalem, bringing all plagues as often as they will against the Beast and his worldly kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

2/3 of Israel's Jews will die as per Zechariah 13:8-9, far from future peace, and the written words will be fulfilled
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#144
#144
Truth7t7 said:
The Church is the Israel of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

They Which Are The Children of The Flesh (Jews) These Are Not The Children Of God

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Click to expand...

Replacement Theology, both false and anti-Semitic. The church does not replace the Jews, Romans 11.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#145
#145
Absolutely said:
So that entire grafting back in in romans is baloney?
God stepped outside his own purpose and now has cast away forever his wayward wife and covenant people?
Click to expand...

If God refuses to keep His everlasting promise to the Jews, you and I have no hope of heaven.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#146
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
113
#146
Roughsoul1991 said:
It may be theologically debated on rather a Christian should support Israel. However, no matter what side you take, Israel will still be prophetically standing for the Revelation events to occur. Israel should be supported politically because they are the only nation in that region that promotes human rights, religious freedom, and a Democratic system of government where the people have the freedom to vote. Their counterintelligence on terrorist organizations is crucial for national security for America and our allies. Due to our aligned beliefs on religious freedom, human rights, and defense from terrorism, many in the middle east consider Israel and America the same. Both infidels and worthy of destruction.

Theologically it is debated because some believe the Old Testament verses like this one below to be obsolete.

Genesis 12:2-3
New International Version
2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

This is just my interpretation, but I know for a fact that nowhere else in scripture does it counter this promise. Nowhere is it canceled. The bottom portion of verse 3 was completed in Jesus Christ as all people on the Earth were blessed through Jesus's sacrifice. As for the fulfillment of the Old Testament, this is related to the demands of the Mosaic ceremonial laws, judicial laws, and completion of Old Testament prophecy.

I do not see where the promise of I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, stops from being true.
Click to expand...

Your going back and forth from democracy,freedom,human rights ect. to "religion". Why I am pointing this out is that "the state of Israel" is just that it is a state that when created was called Israel. If you look closely at how it is ran it is not a religious state that uses the Torah(Scriptures) to determine its political decisions but instead it is adamant in the position that "Israel will not become a state of Halachah(Jewish law) https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/06/03/netanyahu-israel-will-not-be-governed-by-jewish-law/

If you notice Zionism is a "political movement" not a "religious/religion based" movement and should not be confused one with the other. The state of Israel has no desire,nor ever did have the desire to be the "nation of Israel" as you/we see in the Bible. This is the reason there is the disagreement between the "Orthodox Jews"(want a religious nation/Biblical) and those who seek/sought a secular government not based on religion(in power from 1948 till now).

The problem your seeing now(current news) is that,,, "if",,, Gaza and the Golan Heights become part of the state of Israel then it's people(population) will be able to vote in elections and the Muslim/Islamic vote would out number the Jewish (both orthodox and non religious) and the Islamic/Muslim people would be the majority. So the issue is that in order to keep the "state of Israel" in existence both Gaza and the G.H's. must not be permitted to vote and the population in Israel has to remain a Jewish majority(forced relocation of Muslims). It's the same as if Texas succeeded from the union after a few elections the Hispanic/Latino vote would be the majority. https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-turnout-rises-to-60-after-reaching-an-all-time-low-in-april/
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#147
#147
tanakh said:
Firstly you should have made it clear what you meant by saying ''God told me'' God tells us a vast amount of information about himself and his plans for humanity in the Bible and its there for anyone
to read but it is a matter of interpretation and gaining knowledge of its contents and context. That
brings me to my second point. Yes God tells us to love Israel but as Paul stated not all Israel is Israel.
How many present day Jews believe in Christ as their Messiah and the only begotten Son of God or even one of Gods Prophets? If we are correct in believing that the Antichrist will have Jewish ancestry
are we supposed to love him as well?
Click to expand...
Romans 11
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#148
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#148
kaylagrl said:
Replacement Theology, both false and anti-Semitic. The church does not replace the Jews, Romans 11.
Click to expand...
I fully agree, the Church hasn't replaced the Jews, but has "Inherited" the covenants and promises made to Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ

Perhaps you need to use the term (Inheritance Theology) this reflects scriptural truth

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#149
#149
Truth7t7 said:
Roman's Chapter 11 is speaking to the Remnant Church, those that are chosen through grace in salvation, that will be added to the Church on earth

You will closely note, unsaved Israel us blinded

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Click to expand...
1. No, it's speaking to the Jews, read it again!

2. Blinded until the Gentiles come in, blinded for a time.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#150
#150
Truth7t7 said:
I fully agree, the Church hasn't replaced the Jews, but has "Inherited" the covenants and promises made to Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ

Perhaps you need to use the term (Inheritance Theology) this reflects scriptural truth

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Click to expand...

God has promises to the Jew and to the Gentile. We don't mix the two. Romans 11 is speaking to the Jews and to the promises yet to be fulfilled to them.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#151
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#151
Wansvic said:
Where is this found in scripture?
Click to expand...
That dynamic climaxes in rev 14.
144k firstfruit Jews taken to heaven FIRST, then main Jewish harvest a few verses later.
Read ruth.
Then look at the first miracle of Jesus.....NOTE ;(cannonized eternally as "FIRST miracle").

(Which translates " last miracle"

Iow
The first miracle HAD TO BE at a JEWISH wedding. With wine, a group of six,his " mother", " good wine" , "inferrior wine", " best wine", and the biggie...."best comes last"

The jews attend the wedding last.
Rev 14.

Ruth vividly portrays ruth entering into covenant ahead of naomi via marriage.
We...the gentile bride... Are preferred ahead of the covenant jews. Naomi is INCLUDED IN THE DEAL.
The covenant Jews depicted as naomi and the land as the Jewish nation." The wayward wife" .

The Jews come in through " covenant" and THROUGH THE DRAMA with ruth.
But they are there THROUGH BOAZ (JESUS).

You can not understand end times without those components
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#152
#152
0000000 said:

If you can find anything in either one of these
videos that is in error...mark the time and we can discuss it
if you post it.
Click to expand...
This is drivel!! The title is lifted from anti- Semitic sermons by Martin Luther and others. This shouldn't even be allowed on this site. And I've heard this guys mouth before. He's full of himself and his own opinions. We don't need to discuss anything, this is pure junk!!
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#153
May 23, 2012
12,330
4,052
113
#153
Truth7t7 said:
There wont be peace, but a future Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist who will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent, as Jerusalem will be the focal point of the world

The (Two Witnesses) of Revelation 11 will stand against this evil man in Jerusalem, bringing all plagues as often as they will against the Beast and his worldly kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

2/3 of Israel's Jews will die as per Zechariah 13:8-9, far from future peace, and the written words will be fulfilled
Click to expand...
that is true but the church of the Lord Jesus Christ will prevail as Jesus said we would :).
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#154
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#154
kaylagrl said:
God has promises to the Jew and to the Gentile. We don't mix the two. Romans 11 is speaking to the Jews and to the promises yet to be fulfilled to them.
Click to expand...
You espouse the false teaching of (Dual Covenant Theology) found in John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofields Dispensationalism

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

You don't want to acknowledge the very clear scripture below, because your teaching in (Dual Covenant Theology) is destroyed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#156
#156
Truth7t7 said:
You espouse the false teaching of (Dual Covenant Theology) found in John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofields Dispensationalism

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

You don't want to acknowledge the very clear scripture below, because your teaching in (Dual Covenant Theology) is destroyed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Click to expand...

Truth, you and I agree on a lot of things, this isn't one of them. You're 100% wrong. Read Romans 11. It is not talking about the church. You don't need anyone to tell you that, all you have to do is read the chapter. It is speaking to the Jews, not us. It's so simple.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#157
May 23, 2012
12,330
4,052
113
#157
Truth7t7 said:
You espouse the false teaching of (Dual Covenant Theology) found in died of brain cancer.

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

You don't want to acknowledge the very clear scripture below, because your teaching in (Dual Covenant Theology) is destroyed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure she is doing that let's forget about the two guys you listed for a moment, please.

in the Old Testament in context to the People of God we do know are the Hebrews who are the Jews correct?


In the word of God, we see God, protection, and judgment on the Jews down through the Historical narrative of the Bible correct?

God judged them had them overtaken by other nations many many times. Yet he saved them and forgave them.

Why did God keep His word to Abraham who has long been dead by the time the Hebrews first entered the promised land and the time of the Judges? Because God made a Promise to Abraham which HE fully intends on keeping.

God will judge them, punish them, take their land away, and give to another, And God will forgive, restore, and save.

God saved He would bring them back from the Mouth of the Holy prophets not from the mouth John N. Darby & C.I. Scofields.


God did just that.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#158
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#158
kaylagrl said:
Yes!! I'm on track. Yes we should support Israel, yes this still holds true. Israel lost use of the land because of sin, but they never lost the deed. God deeded it to them in an everlasting promise. He hasn't broken it. Yes, this is still relevant today!!
Click to expand...
I agree. A lot of this antisemitic beliefs where adopted by the early church and we have a long history of it even in America. This early antisemitic beliefs are part of what led the church to persecute Jews with the Muslims in the Roman Catholic Christian Crusades. Even in WW2 America and her allies was hesitant to the Jew situation.

As the Jews of Europe were being slaughtered across continent during the Holocaust, President Franklin D. Roosevelt did not want them seeking refuge on American shores.

Of course, anti Jew propaganda has been pushed by liberal hate groups in America as well. They do not fit the narrative that a minority groups are suppressed. Jews are very well off for a minority group but they have different work ethics. They work hard. Just like the Chinese minority in America.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#159
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#159
kaylagrl said:
Truth, you and I agree on a lot of things, this isn't one of them. You're 100% wrong. Read Romans 11. It is not talking about the church. You don't need anyone to tell you that, all you have to do is read the chapter. It is speaking to the Jews, not us. It's so simple.
Click to expand...
Problem is, your blinded by the false teachings in (Dual Covenant Theology) most likely in a Baptist Church where Darbyism & Scofieldism has spread like cancer?

You espouse the false teaching of (Dual Covenant Theology) found in John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofields Dispensationalism

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

You don't want to acknowledge the very clear scripture below, because your teaching in (Dual Covenant Theology) is destroyed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#160
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#160
CS1 said:
Why did God keep His word to Abraham who has long been dead by the time the Hebrews first entered the promised land and the time of the Judges? Because God made a Promise to Abraham which HE fully intends on keeping.

God will judge them, punish them, take their land away, and give to another, And God will forgive, restore, and save.

God saved He would bring them back from the Mouth of the Holy prophets not from the mouth John N. Darby & C.I. Scofields.

God did just that.
Click to expand...
Your statement above in bold red suggest that God has a "Future" promise to fulfill to Abraham, this is "False" :)

Jesus Christ was the fulfillment as clearly seen in Galatians 3:16 below

It's the false teaching in (Dual Covenant Theology) that has many misled in error

There is "One Covenant" between God and Man, the finished work on Calvary (Period) The New Testament In His Blood

The Remnant Elect Jew in Romans 11, Will Partake In The Very Same Covenant That All Believers Have Partaken In, Salvation Through The Shed Blood Upon Calvary

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Roman's Chapter 11 is about the (Remnant Church) that are chosen and elected to salvation

As scripture clearly teaches, Israel will not obtain salvation but will be blinded, only the chosen "Remnant Elect" will be saved and "Added To The Church", Gods Israel

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Has Been Added To The Church, The Israel Of God

Romans 11:5-8KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.