Great GRACE {MYSTERY} Departure @ the 2nd coming {prophecy}?

Precious friend(s), Definite Distinctions are not being made, resulting in mass Confusion!
Hope this is helpful and encouraging = Please Be Very Richly Blessed in JESUS CHRIST!:
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LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding In This Thy Most
Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation. Amen. (1_Thessalonians_4:18 KJB!)

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Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming, is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom (“ages” past/future)
(Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world” (Matthew_25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke_1:68-70; Acts_3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians_1:4; 2_Timothy_1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans_16:25; Ephesians_1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
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The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew_24:29; Revelation_19:16, 11 KJB!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation_19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies on white horses! (Revelation_19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth “With All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew_25:31; Revelation_19:11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares First, And they are taken Out of the kingdom”
to be cast into the furnace of fire! (Matthew_24:30, 13:30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew_24:31; Mark_13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew_25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew_25:34-46!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER!:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians_1:19-23; Colossians_1:18; 1_Thessalonians_4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1_Thessalonians_4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2_Corinthians_5:8; Philippians_1:21-23; 1_Thessalonians_4:13 KJB!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1_Thessalonians_4:16-17; 1_Corinthians_15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2_Thessalonians_2:1-3; 1_Corinthians_15:49; 2_Corinthians_12:2, 5:1, 2;
Ephesians_1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians_3:20; 2_Timothy_4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans_2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1_Corinthians_3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2_Corinthians_5:10;
Ephesians_6:8; Colossians_3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians_5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2 KJB!)

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LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.

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Please Be Very Richly Blessed, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:

Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑

leaving out the rapture verses

huh? (4): ...1_Thessalonians_4:16-17; 1_Corinthians_15:52-53 KJB!

If these are Not rapture verses, then please categorize Them for my learning.
Thanks So Much!

ok, you're Absolutely right, sorry, I shouldn't have left out:

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by
our gathering together unto Him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be
troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that
The [Judgment] Day Of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any
means: for That Day shall not come, except there come a falling away
[Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure] First, and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;" (2_Thessalonians_2:1-3 KJB!),

Again, you're Absolutely right, or we Could be "Deceived By any means!" And:

"Looking for That Blessed Hope, and The Glorious [Pre-Trib] Appearing
of The Great God and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST;" (Titus 2:13 KJB!)

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which The Lord,
The Righteous Judge, shall give me At That [Judgment] Day [Of CHRIST!]: and
not to me only, but unto all them also that love HIS Appearing."
(2_Timothy_4:8 KJB!)

eh? My bad! Shame on me for leaving ALL These out!
And, help me learn IF there are Any Others I may have missed!
Getting closer to a More Honest view?

Precious friend, see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑

Now that you know the correct definition of the Greek word apostasia used in this verse, how does it alter your view of the pre-trib rapture doctrine?

Thanks for your correct "definition" of a foreign word; however does not
alter my view, Considering the other dozens of Scriptures That Do Support
PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure! Odds of 50 to 1 or 100 to 1? Sorry, haven't
taken Precious time to ADD THEM All up yet

Which verses support a pre-tojt "great grace departure?'

Precious friend, here ya go...

While those who prefer God's Prophecy/Law Program, And
"live BY SIGHT," Are looking, watching, and WAITING for
the Wicked one, the son of Perdition...

Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2 : 15 KJB!) From "Things That Differ!":
...The Next Dozen Scriptures Supporting Great GRACE Departure!:

...we, who "live BY FAITH, And NOT by sight..."
(2_Corinthians_5 : 7 KJB!), According To The
"Revelation Of The MYSTERY," God's GRACE Program, Are:

Looking, Watching, Waiting For our Blessed Hope, The HOLY ONE:

”...The Coming Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and our
gathering together Unto HIM…“ ( 2_Thessalonians 2 : 1! )

"For I reckon that The Sufferings of this present time are not
worthy to be compared with The Glory which shall be revealed
in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for
the manifestation of the sons of God...

...ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of The Spirit, even
we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for The Adoption,
to wit, The Redemption Of our body!" ( Romans_8 : 18, 19, 23! )

"But if we hope for That we see not, then do
we with patience wait for It." ( Romans_8 : 25! )

For The Redemption Of CHRIST?

"So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for The
Coming of our LORD JESUS CHRIST!" ( 1_Corinthians 1 : 7! )

"...And take the helmet of salvation, and The SWORD of The Spirit,
Which Is The WORD of God: praying always with all prayer and
supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all
perseverance and supplication for all saints…" ( Ephesians_6 : 12-18! )

What?:
Watching/persevering The “future age” of Antichrist/Gr8-Trib,
or The Present Time “Age of GRACE for infirmities” watching for:

CHRIST And Redemption?

"For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we
look for The Saviour, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!" ( Philippians_3 : 20! )

Looking for/persevering the Persecutor, or: FOR The SAVIOUR?

To slaves of The LORD JESUS CHRIST:

"...ye also have A Master in Heaven. Continue in prayer, and
watch in the same with thanksgiving; withal praying also for
us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak
The Mystery Of CHRIST…" ( Colossians_4 :1-3! )

“And to wait for His SON from Heaven, Whom He Raised from the
dead, even JESUS, Which Delivered us from the wrath to come!"
( 1_Thessalonians 1 : 10! ) wrath of antichrist to come?

“Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are
not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as
do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep, sleep
in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate
of faith and love; and for a helmet, The Hope of Salvation. For God
Hath not Appointed us to wrath, but to obtain Salvation By our
LORD JESUS CHRIST, Who Died for us, that, whether we wake or
sleep, we Should Live Together With HIM! Wherefore comfort
yourselves together and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
( 1_Thessalonians 5 : 5-11! )

Please advise how we go into Gr8-Trib, when God Has NOT
appointed us to, And Delivered us from, "the wrath to come"?

And, Finally:

“LOOKING for That Blessed Hope, and The Glorious Appearing
of THE Great God and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST!” ( Titus_2 : 13! )

Conclusion:
Are we "looking, watching, and Patiently waiting for:

THE Wicked one ? OR The HOLY One, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!?

About Colossians_3 : 2: Is your “affection” = Things of “earth” =
antichrist? Or “Things Of Heaven” = The LORD JESUS CHRIST?
+
The First 4+ Dozen were here: Pre-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!
{ (4+1) x 12 } = 60+ to 1 odds, for my UNaltered view, eh?

"Prove ALL things; hold fast to that Which Is Good!"
( 1_Thessalonians_5 : 21 KJB! )

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Blessed!

Thank you.

Notice that none of the scriptures you've posted say the return of Christ is pre-trib...When Jesus returns He destroys the anti-Christ and raptures the church.

So they aren't useful to prove the point

I don't know many verses to support my belief in a pre trib rapture. however it seems to me that the tribulations can't begin until the restrainer is removed, the restrainer is the Holy Spirit and we are filled with the Holy Spirit so, if the HS is removed then so are we because we can't be where the HS isn't. So when He goes we go, right? and that means pre trib.

Correct, no, none of Them Specifically Say "The Return Of CHRIST Is PRE-TOJT!"

Now, somebody Needs To DEFINE Exactly "what Return means: Is it:

(1) According to Prophecy Return {IMMEDIATELY After Gr8Trib, AND SIGNS} means: Returns all THE WAY to the earth for the battle of Armageddon, setting UP HIS THRONE, blowing a trumpet, having
HIS angels GATHER the elect OF ISRAEL/nations {rapture?} and the wicked survivors {rapture?}, for sheep/goats Judgment, to see who Qualifies TO ENTER the kingdom for 1000 years, on the EARTTH?
{Daniel, Matthew, Revelation = Prophecy!}?

or:

(2) According To The Mystery, Return means: HIS {IMMEDIATELY
After GRACE Has Ended AND NO "signs"}, Coming to GATHER HIS
{Already TRANSLATED Into the kingdom} Body Unto HIMSELF,
"meeting them IN THE AIR," Taking them To Glory, to be Judged
FOR: shame {lack of REWARDS}, or rewards, ruling, and reigning
In The HEAVENS! {Does NOT Return ALL THE WAY to the earth!!}
(Romans - Philemon = MYSTERY!!!)?


Please make up our minds Prophecy = MYSTERY? OR NOT?

IF God's TWO Different Programs are NOT EQUAL, THEN, The
"MYSTERY" Scriptures "FOR PRE-TOJT" Are QUITE USEFUL, eh?

Be Blessed!

Thanks for your correct "definition" of a foreign word

If the Holy Spirit is removed before the great tribulation then where do the two witnesses get their power from and how do the saints in the great tribulation become born again?


I don't know the answer to that but I imagine God the Father and/or God the Son have enough power to give the witnesses as much power as they need.

Geneva Bible of 1587 -

"Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,"


Not to mention, in the 400s, the Latin Vulgate used "discessio" (MEANING, "departure")

IOW, "Strong's Concordance" is not the last word on this Subject.

Below find 4 more translations pre 1611 KJV that ALL say departure not falling away.

1526 Tyndale Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst"" and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

1537 Matthews Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the Lord cometh not/except ther come a departure"" that the sinfull man opened/the son of perdition

1535 Miles Coverdale Bible (1535)
2 Thes 2:3 Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORD commeth not, ""except the departynge come 1st"" and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion,

1540 The Great Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the lord comes not except a departure first"", and the sinfull man be showed, son of perdition,

Find supporting scripture on Gods people (Body of Christ/Church) escaping wrath:

We see here the church escaping the wrath of the great tribulation soon to be poured out

1 Thes 1:10, And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even ""Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come""

Rom 5:9 being now justified by his blood ""we shall be saved from wrath"" through him

1 thes 5:9 ""God hath not appointed us to wrath"" but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

The angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear

Noah and his family were delivered from wrath before the flood came

The great tribulation to come is called the time of Jacobs/Israels trouble Jer 30:7.

Additionally:

At the physical return when Jesus STANDS on MT. Olive. The caught-up/raptured saints are with the Lord.

Zec 14:
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
(MY NOTE: When Jesus returns HIS FEET shall stand on Mt Olives (same place he ascended from Acts 1:9-11)

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
(MY NOTE: The LORD my God shall come & all the saints are with him).

5 On that day His feet will stand on Mt Olive. The Mt will split in 2 from east to west. Then the Lord your God will come, & all the saints with Him.
(MY NOTE: The LORD my God shall come & all the saints are with him)

Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(MY NOTE: When the Lord returns ten thousands of his saints are with him)

1 Thes 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
(MY NOTE: When the Lord Jesus returns ALL his saints are with him)