Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

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Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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That is incorrect. And we need to look well beyond modern Israel. The Bible is crystal clear that God has an ETERNAL plan and purpose for Israel on earth, apart from the Church. Indeed the Lord Jesus Christ promised His apostles that in the future they would sit on twelve thrones ruling the twelve tribes of Israel. I could quote scores of Scriptures to back that up, but all Christians should do their due diligence before making remarks as seen above.
please provide scripture.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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If He did get genetic material from Mary, then I think Mary would have had to be very, very special indeed.
yes -- "blessed are you among women" the angel said
((searches))
Luke 1:42 ;)

and she's a Jew! in the line of David ((Matthew 1 -- i knew that one lol))


Her genetics would have had to been able to produce a son without any defect at all so that Jesus could be the perfect sacrifice.
not necessarily! Eve was the first to sin, but it is through Adam that death entered the world ((Romans something.. **searches**.. Romans 5:12 ..**dang i should have known that one**)). in humans, the mother doesn't transfer blood through the fallopian tube to an embryo, and 'the life is in the blood' ((that's in a couple places in the law, i'll let you search this time, ha!)) -- so isn't death also in the blood? as God defines life and death!


So if Jesus was genetically a Jew, then maybe the Catholics are onto something about Mary.
nah. see previous argument. if Mary was sinless she may as well have been the sacrifice for sin, instead of God-having-taken-humanit-on-Himself = Jesus.


But if Mary was just a surrogate, then Jesus would have totally unique perfect genetics, and I'd guess the protestants are correct about Mary being of no real significance.
i don't think protestants say Mary has 'no real significance' just because she isn't sinless or to be worshiped & prayed to. they wouldn't be right, even if they did -- because, see 1st argument, she's blesses among women ;)
also -- Jesus wouldn't need both father and mother to be singular to have uniquely perfect DNA. His 'male' gene didn't come from Joseph, but from Himself, from God. He has no earthly father, and that's enough to make Him very, very different in a genetic sense than anyone else ((except Adam!)) -- while still completely human and completely God.


But I do think that it is apparent that He was at least raised as a jew. And regardless of His genetics, I think it's safe to say that He was born OF the jews and thus fullfilled the prophesy to Abraham regarding how all people will be blessed through his seed.
yes! and born from a Jewish mother, circumcised the 8th day, under the law as only Jews were. not for no reason! but because salvation is 'to the Jew first, and also the Gentile' ((hey! i know that one! Romans 1:16! because i have to keep reminding our friendly-neighborhood hyper-dispensationalists! of that verse!))


I don't think God foresook the jews at all. I think they have fulfilled their purpose that God had for them. I think if jews want to go to heaven, they need to trust in Jesus, just like anyone else. I don't buy into this idea of two sets of rules - one for jews and one for everyone else.
i don't believe there is salvation for Jews outside of Christ either, and there isn't 2 different 'sets of rules' either.
but there is still a lot of prophecy that sure seems to be written specifically to and about the nation and people of Israel that hasn't happened yet. like CS1 pointed out, Christ is going to return to the land of Israel in a specific place, and specifically to defend them when all the world is gathered against them. that takes a literal physical nation that God literally physically comes and saves. just as an example.
like i said earlier ((dunno if you saw)) if God forsakes those He calls His people then there is no such thing as salvation for anyone because salvation depends solely and completely on Him and His own mercy :)
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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There wont be peace, but a future Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist who will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent, as Jerusalem will be the focal point of the world
"but a future Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist who will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent"

The portion I underlined is an ASSUMPTION on your part... one which I've in the past shown passages disputing such a notion (not going into all that here in this post)...


--"the TIMES of the Gentiles" started back in 606/605bc [think: Neb's "dream/statue/image" with Neb as "head of gold"] and will not be concluded until the END of the future Trib yrs (per Rev11:2), where "[Jerusalem] TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles" pertains (...and which phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is NOT to be equated with the common phrase "the Church age," as some mistakenly suppose...; and is distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]")
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,486
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I will give you the correct answer.
If the answer I give you is correct.
You give me one of your blessings,
one of my choosing.
this is great, you're being a better troll now, like old times :LOL:

dood do you really think anyone but God can give and take away blessings?
you so lost


i'll ask Him again if i should pray that spirit depart from you this time, or if those days you were assigned aren't over yet, how about that?

however if you want to curse me again that'd be fine. who doesn't like blessings? :)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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SO please, take your lying, hating, name-calling self out of here and save me the trouble of doing it for you. be an adult, if that is possible.
Your accusations are "False"

2 Timothy 3:2-3KJV
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Jesus Christ Is Lord!
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
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The above person keeps spouting things but refuses to answer the points made. This by definition proves he has no answer. And why I refuse to play his game anymore
Your accusations are "False"

2 Timothy 3:2-3KJV
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Jesus Christ Is Lord!
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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please provide scripture.
There is no scripture that supports (Dual Covenant Theology) in separate plans for Israel and the Church

A False teaching promoted by John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofield known as Dispensationalism

Jesus Christ Is Lord :)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
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"but a future Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist who will be a Jew/Hebrew in decent"

The portion I underlined is an ASSUMPTION on your part... one which I've in the past shown passages disputing such a notion (not going into all that here in this post)...


--"the TIMES of the Gentiles" started back in 606/605bc [think: Neb's "dream/statue/image" with Neb as "head of gold"] and will not be concluded until the END of the future Trib yrs (per Rev11:2), where "[Jerusalem] TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles" pertains (...and which phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is NOT to be equated with the common phrase "the Church age," as some mistakenly suppose...; and is distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]")
The (Little Horn) Antichrist Of Daniel Will Be A Jew/Hebrew, His Ancestry Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.


2 Kings 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.


2 Chronicles 28:25KJV
25 And in every several city of Judah he made high places to burn incense unto other gods, and provoked to anger the Lord God of his fathers.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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I don't buy into this idea of two sets of rules - one for jews and one for everyone else.
Your Correct, There is no scripture that supports "Two Sets Of Rules" (Dual Covenant Theology) in separate plans for Israel and the Church (A Lie)

A False teaching promoted by John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofield known as Dispensationalism

Jesus Christ Is Lord :)
 
Jul 9, 2020
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Pastor Anderson makes a lot of sense in that video. I agree with him. It was encouraging to see a few other pastors that resist dispensationalism.

But I did have to laugh a little bit when he started talking about geneologies.
"Don't get into endless geneologies!"....<immediately goes and gets a DNA analysis.> LOL!
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,091
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The (Little Horn) Antichrist Of Daniel Will Be A Jew/Hebrew, His Ancestry Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)
Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
2 Kings 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.
2 Chronicles 28:25KJV
25 And in every several city of Judah he made high places to burn incense unto other gods, and provoked to anger the Lord God of his fathers.
Take note of the many passages (when speaking of the true God) have it written like this instead:


"LORD God of his/your/their fathers" (bolding two that you'd listed) -

--2 Kings 21:22

--2 Chronicles 13:12

--2 Chronicles 21:10

--2 Chronicles 28:25

--2 Chronicles 30:19

--2 Chronicles 34:33

--2 Chronicles 36:15

--Ezra 10:11




(which is distinct from how it is written in Dan11:37, see; I remain unconvinced of your viewpoint... though I do think the "second beast" [Rev13:11-18] likely fits such a description)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Rev13:11-18 -

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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It may be theologically debated on rather a Christian should support Israel. However, no matter what side you take, Israel will still be prophetically standing for the Revelation events to occur. Israel should be supported politically because they are the only nation in that region that promotes human rights, religious freedom, and a Democratic system of government where the people have the freedom to vote. Their counterintelligence on terrorist organizations is crucial for national security for America and our allies. Due to our aligned beliefs on religious freedom, human rights, and defense from terrorism, many in the middle east consider Israel and America the same. Both infidels and worthy of destruction.

Theologically it is debated because some believe the Old Testament verses like this one below to be obsolete.

Genesis 12:2-3
New International Version
2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

This is just my interpretation, but I know for a fact that nowhere else in scripture does it counter this promise. Nowhere is it canceled. The bottom portion of verse 3 was completed in Jesus Christ as all people on the Earth were blessed through Jesus's sacrifice. As for the fulfillment of the Old Testament, this is related to the demands of the Mosaic ceremonial laws, judicial laws, and completion of Old Testament prophecy.

I do not see where the promise of I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, stops from being true.
hmm I dont think the arabs or palestinians see america or their people who live there as the same as israel.
They arent seeing america. in terms of the same holy land that God gave abrahams descendants. God gave the bounds of the holy land to His chosen people specifically in the Bible.

it does not actually include the land mass of the american continent. It was specifcally the land of canaan, bound by the mediteranean and jordan river.

remember in the OT anyone can join israel and become part of that nation if they live there, turn from their idols and worship God.

arabs actually dont really have a beef with america as america buys its oil and many arabs buys americas guns and weapons lol. What the arabs are annoyed about is israelis being given the land they live on and worshipping God almighty, not allah or idols.

not really anything to do with america! it goes back to Jacob and Esau. Esau actually was blessed, but did not get the original blessing intended, because Esau traded the firstborn birthright for venison stew!