The second coming of Jesus

Ahwatukee:

Why do you say after God completes his wrath there will be a 1000 year reign on earth with Jesus and all his people? I thought when God finished his wrath, he rolled up the heavens like a scroll.

I think I read something to that effect in an earlier post.

I don't understand it. What is the point of 1000 year reign on earth after heavens and earth are destroyed and all wrath is accomplished?

The heavens and earth are not "destroyed" at the second coming. The second coming is to set up that thousand year kingdom where for the first time in human history Satan is absent.

Me too.

Per Revelation 20, there will be a thousand year kingdom of those from the first resurrection. Ok.

According to 1 Corinthians 15:50-55, it says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Rather, we must be made imperishable, changed, immortal, then death is swallowed up in victory.

So the millennial kingdom will have no flesh and blood, mortals, or perishable people? So is it really going to be a kingdom with spiritual beings with boots on the ground right here on Earth?

What, exactly, does the likeness of the heavenly man look like?

Ahwat- to be an encouragement, your end times posts helps those of us who are interested, but aren't as well studied in it. just use those nay sayers as an opportunity to reach those of us interested. Keep up the good work.

All I can say to that is to study the resurrection of Christ. 1 Corinthians 15 is really a great chapter for this. According to verse 23, Christ is the "first fruits" of the resurrection. When we are resurrected, I believe that we will maintain a solid form, but we'll have a glorified body. Like Jesus who retained His scars post-resurrectiom, we could possibly retain whatever scars we had at the end of our life. It's a bit of a mystery.

I decided to research it and while I don't really like everything Got Questions has, I thought this one about glorified bodies was decent:

https://www.gotquestions.org/glorified-bodies.html

We may not fully understand all the events in Revelation, but it should be clear that following the Great Tribulation and all the Sixth Seal cosmic events which follow, we see the Second Coming of Christ. And following that we see the Millennium being established. So since we have only an overview, we should stick to the sequence of events as given chronologically (in large part). Too many people have tried to dismiss the Millennium, but it is firmly embedded in Revelation 20.

I'm not trying to dismiss it, I'm just not understanding. Do you mean the earth after God's wrath destroys it? Or a new earth?

I agree, it was a good article, ty for sharing. I could follow the thoughts of most of it without objection, that is except for the title, and a particular phrase in the body alluding to a suggestion that these bodies can only exist in heaven, (i.e., "Just as our earthly bodies are perfectly suited for life on earth..."). Although adequately suited, I'm not sure "perfectly" suited would be the most accurate wording there, but I may just be only nitpicking. However, it is my thought that, to have been perfectly suited, we would('ve) then be imperishable. And that brings us back to the promise of being made perfect.... iow, incorruptible or equipped with the capabilities necessary to moderate corruption (if indeed any form of corruption does remain also).

The nations being ruled over will be mortals but the saints ruling with rods of iron will be immortals.

Seems plausible. I guess those nations of people will be whoever didn't join the army in the battle of Gog and Magog.

Yes. They are the civilians. It is they that will be ruled over in the future tense here:

The arrival of Christ for the second time accomplishes many things including the vials of wrath and destroying the army of the beast at Armageddon as well as resulting in the beast and false prophet being cast into the LOF. There is one more thing mentioned during the second coming that many do not notice which is the future rule over the nations which proves there are unsaved mortals that are set aside for being ruled over by the rod of iron:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

I noticed you were speaking of heavenly bodies and I had recently seen this interesting statement in the book of Job that is curious.

Job 38:37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,

Now, I've been pondering a lot about bottle/bottles in the bible and they're basically a skin sack. And there is a comparison to our spirit being new wine and needing a new bottle which appears in three of the gospels. Mat 9:17 Mar 2:22 Luk 5:37

I think that bottles refer to our heavenly bodies. God is reproving Job, among other things, asking him who can keep the
"bottles" in heaven?

Bottles might be referring to all the quickened spirits who are present with the Lord in heaven.

Or it may not be. I don't know. I'm studying a little bit on the word bottle and the usage of it throughout the scriptures.

Houses and I also believe mansions definitely refer to the body and the new body and certainly a water flask is the body for the liquid but in that passage from Job, I think the context lends itself to clouds and rain.

No, we are not under the Law. Jesus fulfilled it on our behalf and He is the end of the Law. This was the very meaning of the wine and the wineskins parable. No one pours new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the wineskins will burst and both the wineskins and wine will be ruined.

I know that the following listing will do no good, because you, along with others, will circumvent these scriptures and contend for whatever teaching you have adopted while rejecting the truth. It is an on-going pattern, which I am well familiar with. But here it is just the same:

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Acts 13:38-39
Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:5-11
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the Law of Moses.”

The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith, Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Romans 3:19-24
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:27-28
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

Romans 4:4-5
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4:13-15
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Ergo (The best way to not break the law is to have no law to break.)

Romans 7:1-6
Do you not know, brothers -- for I am speaking to men who know the law -- that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.



Romans 9:30-32
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith, but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”

Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Romans 14:5-6
One man considers one day more sacred than another; and another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He, who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Continued)

(Continued)

Galatians 2:15-16
We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:19-21
For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing.

Galatians 3:1-4
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written” “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”

Galatians 3:13-14
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree. He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Galatians 3:15-19
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to his seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.

What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Galatians 5:1-4
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Ephesians 2:14-15
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

Colossians 2:13-17
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Food law, Feasts and holy days)

Hebrews 7:18-19
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

II Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.

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If you still believe that you are under the law after reading all of those scripture, then you are just not believing in God's word.

Bless you for saying so and for the encouragement. You are correct and I often wonder about those who are in the background who are reading and being edified, that never make themselves known.

And you keep it up as well, for I am always lifted up when reading your posts.

According to scripture, the heavens and the earth are not destroyed until after the millennial kingdom. Satan will be absent as you said, for he will be bound in the Abyss during that thousand years. However and as I said, the earth is not destroyed until the great white throne judgment, as revealed below:

Revelation 20:7 - When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.

Revelation 20:11 - "Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

Revelation 21:1 - After the great white throne judgment:

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea"

So, it is not until after the thousand years and at the onset of the great white throne judgment that this current heaven and earth are destroyed and the new heaven and earth come into being.

I'm sorry to ask technical questions, but it's really confusing to me.

So, if we are present on earth during this millennia, we all still die because we are still bound by the natural laws of the earth.

But, if this occurs after the wrath, the wrath itself will do such incredible damage that the world would not be inhabitable. So I still may have the sequence of events out of order.