Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Apr 24, 2021
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Jesus is the one with the sword in Revelation 19, not Michael. Neither of them are the first seal rider with the bow.
JESUS is a Saviour. Michael is a warrior.

Michael is an ambassador of GOD. Jeremiah 49:v.14 and Obadiah 1:v.1

It is Michael who will cast both the Beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire - Revelation 19-. It is Michael who will cast the old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, into the bottomless pit.

It is Michael who makes War against the red Dragon and his messengers (2Corinthians 11:v.13 to 15), which deceiveth the whole world.

It is Michael who sounds the last Trumpet , even the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - Michael -, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. - Daniel 12:v.2 and 1 Thes.4:v.16. And because the presence of Michael there will be great tribulation from now on or in he days ahead.

Michael is the angel from whom GOD said unto Moses would go before him to keep him: Exodus 23:v.20-22

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. (What's name was revealed to Moses? Exodus 3:v.15 - 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.


See this testimony of Stephen: Acts 7:v.30-33

30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him -Moses- in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. <--->Revelation 1:v.1 -

31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.


Revelation 1:v.1 and 10-13

1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like(similar) unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

I wrote the Scriptures above because by your own words see that you knew not (now you know him) the archangel Michael.

John thought even to worship Michael: Revelation 22:v.8-9

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
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Michael is the angel from whom GOD said unto Moses would go before him to keep him: Exodus 23:v.20-22
That is FALSE. That angel was "the Angel of the LORD". Christ Himself. Who was always present with Israel in the pillar of cloud and the pillar of fire. Do not elevate Michael unnecessarily. That is false worship.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,809
1,229
113
You teach blasphemous heresy!


JESUS is a Saviour. Michael is a warrior.

Michael is an ambassador of GOD. Jeremiah 49:v.14 and Obadiah 1:v.1

It is Michael who will cast both the Beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire - Revelation 19-. It is Michael who will cast the old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, into the bottomless pit.

It is Michael who makes War against the red Dragon and his messengers (2Corinthians 11:v.13 to 15), which deceiveth the whole world.

It is Michael who sounds the last Trumpet , even the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - Michael -, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. - Daniel 12:v.2 and 1 Thes.4:v.16. And because the presence of Michael there will be great tribulation from now on or in he days ahead.

Michael is the angel from whom GOD said unto Moses would go before him to keep him: Exodus 23:v.20-22

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. (What's name was revealed to Moses? Exodus 3:v.15 - 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.


See this testimony of Stephen: Acts 7:v.30-33

30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him -Moses- in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. <--->Revelation 1:v.1 -

31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.


Revelation 1:v.1 and 10-13

1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like(similar) unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

I wrote the Scriptures above because by your own words see that you knew not (now you know him) the archangel Michael.

John thought even to worship Michael: Revelation 22:v.8-9

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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JESUS is a Saviour. Michael is a warrior.

Michael is an ambassador of GOD. Jeremiah 49:v.14 and Obadiah 1:v.1

It is Michael who will cast both the Beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire - Revelation 19-. It is Michael who will cast the old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, into the bottomless pit.

It is Michael who makes War against the red Dragon and his messengers (2Corinthians 11:v.13 to 15), which deceiveth the whole world.

It is Michael who sounds the last Trumpet , even the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - Michael -, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. - Daniel 12:v.2 and 1 Thes.4:v.16. And because the presence of Michael there will be great tribulation from now on or in he days ahead.

Michael is the angel from whom GOD said unto Moses would go before him to keep him: Exodus 23:v.20-22

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. (What's name was revealed to Moses? Exodus 3:v.15 - 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.


See this testimony of Stephen: Acts 7:v.30-33

30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him -Moses- in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. <--->Revelation 1:v.1 -

31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.


Revelation 1:v.1 and 10-13

1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like(similar) unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

I wrote the Scriptures above because by your own words see that you knew not (now you know him) the archangel Michael.

John thought even to worship Michael: Revelation 22:v.8-9

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Jesus is also called Michael. You're getting close to the truth.
 
Feb 26, 2021
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Matthew 24:v.21-22 - JESUS explains better:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.<--->If not, there should no flesh be saved.
why did you quote this for me?
 
Jan 31, 2021
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That's a good point, but he comes "after the working of Satan" and has power to do miracles. This is really a question of how much miracle power does the devil have?

Also, do you think the a/c will be known of or have some kind of presence prior to being revealed as to who he actually is prior to taking up official role as a/c?
I think so. I would expect some kind of very charming kind of person who "has the answer" for possibly all the economic ills from the pandemic (probably satanically instigated). Something like that. After all, all the world's leaders will give him their sovereignty.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I don't want to go to far afield with these particular passages in the text. In the framework of Matthew 24 and Jesus' reference to the flood, there certainly is no rapture at all indicated. The text does not indicate in any way that people are snatched BEFORE the flood occurs. All of the action is taking place in the midst of the flood.
Gods people in the ark right before the flood.

Gathered and removed.

Noah and family over a mile into the sky.

Noah in ark extended family SHUT OUT.


10 VIRGINS....THE SAME

Noah in ark ....ark a type of heaven

5 wise in heaven

Noah gathered....door shut

5 wise virgins gathered .....door shut.

To top it off....both examples are BY JESUS IN THE SAME BREATH.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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JESUS is a Saviour. Michael is a warrior.

Michael is an ambassador of GOD. Jeremiah 49:v.14 and Obadiah 1:v.1

It is Michael who will cast both the Beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire - Revelation 19-. It is Michael who will cast the old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, into the bottomless pit.

It is Michael who makes War against the red Dragon and his messengers (2Corinthians 11:v.13 to 15), which deceiveth the whole world.

It is Michael who sounds the last Trumpet , even the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - Michael -, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. - Daniel 12:v.2 and 1 Thes.4:v.16. And because the presence of Michael there will be great tribulation from now on or in he days ahead.

Michael is the angel from whom GOD said unto Moses would go before him to keep him: Exodus 23:v.20-22

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. (What's name was revealed to Moses? Exodus 3:v.15 - 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.


See this testimony of Stephen: Acts 7:v.30-33

30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him -Moses- in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. <--->Revelation 1:v.1 -

31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.


Revelation 1:v.1 and 10-13

1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like(similar) unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

I wrote the Scriptures above because by your own words see that you knew not (now you know him) the archangel Michael.

John thought even to worship Michael: Revelation 22:v.8-9

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Jesus is also called Michael. You're getting close to the truth.
Michael is created

Jesus is creator.
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
Gods people in the ark right before the flood.

Gathered and removed.

Noah and family over a mile into the sky.

Noah in ark extended family SHUT OUT.


10 VIRGINS....THE SAME

Noah in ark ....ark a type of heaven

5 wise in heaven

Noah gathered....door shut

5 wise virgins gathered .....door shut.

To top it off....both examples are BY JESUS IN THE SAME BREATH.
I suspect that heavens ark travels all the way upto heaven still to this day. and at the other end of the ark is noah:unsure:
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I suspect that heavens ark travels all the way upto heaven still to this day. and at the other end of the ark is noah:unsure:
it is cannonized eternally that noah returned post trib/flood, BACK TO EARTH

Same for the 5 wise virgins.

It is solid bible
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
it is cannonized eternally that noah returned post trib/flood, BACK TO EARTH

Same for the 5 wise virgins.

It is solid bible
do you take that to mean there is an eternal ark between heaven and earth or an ark that has come to return and gone back.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,685
1,620
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she has a close grasp of end times.

I think watchtower has a radically perverted end times doctrine.
I not as sure that statement rings so true about their end times doctrine, I'm not that familiar with it, as I am that equating Michael to Jesus is effectively elevating Michael to status of God or denouncing Jesus' divinity... I don't think 'and' can be applied here.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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cv5 said:
I don't want to go to far afield with these particular passages in the text. In the framework of Matthew 24 and Jesus' reference to the flood, there certainly is no rapture at all indicated. The text does not indicate in any way that people are snatched BEFORE the flood occurs. All of the action is taking place in the midst of the flood.
Gods people in the ark right before the flood.
Were any of them removed from the earth? That would parallel a rapture.

Gathered and removed.
Removed from what? Water, judgment. God is perfectly able to keep His people away from judgment.

Noah and family over a mile into the sky.
Still on earth. So, nope, not a parallel to a rapture being taken to heaven.

Noah in ark extended family SHUT OUT.
You mean kept from God's judgment on the earth.

10 VIRGINS....THE SAME
No parallel. No virgin was taken from the earth to heaven. And there was NO DANGER in that spiritualized parable.

Noah in ark ....ark a type of heaven
More unnecessary spiritualizing. The ark represented SALVATION from judgment, therefore the ark represents Jesus Christ.

5 wise in heaven
5 "what" in heaven?

Noah gathered....door shut
Noah was not taken from earth to heaven, which YOU claim will occur with raptured believers. Even though there are NO verses that teach that.

[QUTOE]5 wise virgins gathered .....door shut.[/QUOTE]
So, basically, your argument is that a "shut door" parallels a pretrib rapture? All doors, or which ones?

To top it off....both examples are BY JESUS IN THE SAME BREATH.
Jesus wasn't parallelling anything. His point was clear. Be prepared. No one knows the "day or hour" when Christ comes to set up His Millennial kingdom.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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pumpkinbread1567 said:
@OrphanedRepublican

...................................Are you Jehovah Witness?
she has a close grasp of end times.

I think watchtower has a radically perverted end times doctrine.
You kinda do too, what with all your pretrib trip to heaven stuff.

After the First Advent, Jesus comes back at the Second Advent, which is when He ends the Trib at the battle of Armageddon and He sets up His Millennial kingdom.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Could you explain how your pretrib trip to heaven is "solid bible" when the Bible SAYS NOTHING about resurrected and raptured believers being taken to heaven?

Of course you can't. Or you would have by now.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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do you take that to mean there is an eternal ark between heaven and earth or an ark that has come to return and gone back.
Noah entered the ark...correct?

"Ark" is a type of " Gods dwelling place ...correct?
Both the ark and the church are lifted to heaven pre flood/trib and return post flood/trib

It is typology.

The pretrib raptured church goes up to Gods dwelling place.

Returns postrib.

As illustrated by Jesus using Noah.
Jesus uses Noah as a type.