Works

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#23
I appreciate all these posts that are centered on Christ and how the Christian lives their life as belonging to Christ. For a Christian, those who work for the Lord do so as a result of Christ within, of having received the Holy Spirit. Our works are not our own.

However many Christians question this work of a Christian, wondering if this Christian is not working for salvation.

I think that our world is operated by the Lord with precise cause and results, and these principles work no matter what motivates an action. We know this when we look at faith. When we act in faith in Christ for forgiveness, the result is always forgiveness. It seems to me that in the same way a work in harmony with the Lord's ways always result in a specific outcomes regardless of the motivation for the work.

If you give to the poor there is a reward, if you rob a bank there is a reward, if you hate someone and are unforgiving there is always a reward even apart from salvation and death.

I am not suggesting any Christian be motivated by this fact. We live our life as Christians, I am only suggesting this is a fact we can be aware of. Our deeds earn a reward apart from salvation. 2 Cor. 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
1,410
113
#24
Eph 2:10 Matthew 25 Hebrews 11 book of James Gal 5

Putting it simply good works is the natural output of faith.
I agree that good works come out of our faith - but I don't like the word "natural".

Instead I would propose that good works are not "natural"; they are spiritual. Good works are not something the believer does naturally. They come about only through the work of God/Holy Spirit in our spirits.

Furthermore good works are not isolated or separated from salvation. Salvation (deliverance) is not just about obtaining heaven. Salvation (deliverance) is being delivered from the daily power and control of sin and the Devil - and thus good works (versus living in sin) are inextricably part of my deliverance (salvation).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,181
1,177
113
#25
Right. Works have no relation at all to deliverance. This post is not about acts for deliverance, that would be ridiculous for works do not apply to deliverance, deliverance has nothing whatsoever to do with this post.

Have you read what this post is about?
I understood that this post is about receiving eternal salvation without works. salvation, if you would refer to the Greek meaning of it means "a deliverance". You cannot discuss eternal salvation without discussing deliverance. They are one in the same.

Sense we are discussing salvation, which is a deliverance, we have scriptures that tell us that the born again child of God, when he commits a sin and loses his fellowship with God, and repents, that he is delivered from his non-fellowship. Many salvation (deliverance) scriptures has reference to this event.

When God's children apply all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal salvation, they will find that the scriptures, seemingly, teach that eternal salvation is achieved by our good works, such as repenting. which is a false belief.

This kind of false belief causes many types of ways in an attempt to explain away works.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#26
Nobody says "God took back the old testament".

NOBODY.

But for some reason, you keep repeating this falsehood.


That's where you're wrong. You simply don't accept that the old covenant ENDED, despite having been told repeatedly, with reference to Scripture, MANY times.

but but but

I was so attached to those old wineskins.....:cry:

doesn't matter what anyone is going to say, but you have to give credit to the tenacity :whistle:
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#27
I wonder if there are any Christians who give a rip about the way the Lord looks at our works?
that's really getting off on the right foot. so much will be accomplished

Are there any Christians who would consider taking a new way of looking at works?
probably gonna stick with the scripture on that one
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#28
I think that our world is operated by the Lord with precise cause and results, and these principles work no matter what motivates an action.
that would create a totally physical universe in which physics were king and God sat by and watched

and I know you believe God works in the spiritual, so it becomes difficult to follow whatever it is you are trying to say

If you give to the poor there is a reward, if you rob a bank there is a reward, if you hate someone and are unforgiving there is always a reward even apart from salvation and death.
ummm....how about people reaping where they have not sown? (I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor. John 4:38) how is that going to play into your thoughts?

kindly don't come back with some snappy retort like in the other thread where you totally made up a response that accused me of first of all hating Jews and then some other off the wall thing I could not even follow

you start these threads that have some obscure objectivity known only to yourself and then basically grade responses on whether or not you find they fit in with whatever you have in mind

that is not a discussion. you also contradict yourself and that does not help either
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#29
I appreciate all these posts that are centered on Christ and how the Christian lives their life as belonging to Christ. For a Christian, those who work for the Lord do so as a result of Christ within, of having received the Holy Spirit. Our works are not our own.

However many Christians question this work of a Christian, wondering if this Christian is not working for salvation.

I think that our world is operated by the Lord with precise cause and results, and these principles work no matter what motivates an action. We know this when we look at faith. When we act in faith in Christ for forgiveness, the result is always forgiveness. It seems to me that in the same way a work in harmony with the Lord's ways always result in a specific outcomes regardless of the motivation for the work.

If you give to the poor there is a reward, if you rob a bank there is a reward, if you hate someone and are unforgiving there is always a reward even apart from salvation and death.

I am not suggesting any Christian be motivated by this fact. We live our life as Christians, I am only suggesting this is a fact we can be aware of. Our deeds earn a reward apart from salvation. 2 Cor. 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
The point is more that any labour in the Lord is not in vain. Thats focus of Romans 8 .No matter the persecution and suffering, not to lose hope . The future is guaranteed. The future Adoption is guaranteed ( Rom 8.23 ) This assurance IS the motivation. In spite of what the outside circumstances look like ,this should pale compared to the glory to come. Every Christian that is focusing on themselves . Whether it be sanctification ( which is important ) or to ' keep saved ' is preaching fear despair .
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#30
I understood that this post is about receiving eternal salvation without works. salvation, if you would refer to the Greek meaning of it means "a deliverance". You cannot discuss eternal salvation without discussing deliverance. They are one in the same.

.
When scripture tells us that works do not enter into the equation when God decides about our salvation, only faith is looked at, how could anyone on a Christian site say that is not true?

This op is about works, thinking of it as completely apart from thinking of salvation. This op's discussion is about what the Lord tells us about works APART from the fact that they do not save. The only way I have found that works are spoken of in scripture in relation to being saved is that works are the result of salvation.

The eternal, still effective, part of the old covenant speaks of the Lord giving fleshly rewards for works apart from salvation, for the eternal truth given in the old testament is that there is not salvation without blood. We are given the fruits of the spirit for works, those fruits are apart from salvation.

We are NOT to work for salvation, but we are not told we may not work for earthly rewards, in fact we are told we will be judged by our works.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#31
According to polls, the Jews are rewarded by their works,
Those Jews who are working to obey the Lord even though they do not obey that they are to accept Christ are, according to polls, reaping great rewards in all ways except eternal life from friends and family, to wealth, to honors they are given. Christians could have these same rewards on top of the major reward of eternal life if we would open our eyes to the advantages of works.
Now would be a good time to reject the polls.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#32
Now would be a good time to reject the polls.
Who wants to be faced with facts, anyway!! Or we could look at the facts and say the Lord is in control of these things, maybe God rewards obedience to His ways. If only the Jews would obey when they are told to have faith in the Savior!!

Christians have faith in the Savior but most have no faith in the law. Jews have faith in the law and no faith in the Savior. I'd rather be a Christian, but you would think the Christians could have faith in both.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#33
Who wants to be faced with facts, anyway!! Or we could look at the facts and say the Lord is in control of these things, maybe God rewards obedience to His ways. If only the Jews would obey when they are told to have faith in the Savior!!

Christians have faith in the Savior but most have no faith in the law. Jews have faith in the law and no faith in the Savior. I'd rather be a Christian, but you would think the Christians could have faith in both.
I’d rather date Miss Grace over Miss Prudent anyday…

Galatians 3:2,5,11-12,24-26 KJV
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[5] He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. [12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#34
I’d rather date Miss Grace over Miss Prudent anyday…

Galatians 3:2,5,11-12,24-26 KJV
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[5] He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. [12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
God doesn't ask us to choose, God in his mercy gives so abundantly that you can have both, Christians just say no to God.

The Lord explains this thoroughly to us in the longest, a beautiful psalm, the 119th psalm, but Christians would rather find reasons to deny that psalm.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#35
God doesn't ask us to choose, God in his mercy gives so abundantly that you can have both, Christians just say no to God.

The Lord explains this thoroughly to us in the longest, a beautiful psalm, the 119th psalm, but Christians would rather find reasons to deny that psalm.
Gal 3
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,652
574
113
#36
christians who obey the law are not foolish galations who dont.

Galations 3 is all about foolish galations who disobey one single law how is this even valid to chistians ? when cleary that law is not for christians.

Galations 3 clearly says we keep our faith by obeying the law
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
Sometimes I believe Protestants just twist the meaning to fit the Protestant view. Even Martin Luther wanted to get rid of the Book of James because of that verse (also nose a few other books in the Bible which promote works). I think works can be both the result of faith, as well as apart from faith.
James is clear

if I CLAIM I have faith but have no works, can that claimed faith save me.

his answer is no, that faith is dead, it is not alive, it has no power. It is mere belief, his fight was against mere believers only (even demons believe)

what we need to remember is James did not contradict paul.

paul fought legalism, faith plus works, what he called a different gospel. And showed how t must be grace or works it can’t be both (if it is of grace it is no longer works otherwise grace is not longer grace, and how it is not by works of righteousness which we have done. But by Gods mercy he saved us.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
christians who obey the law are not foolish galations who dont.

Galations 3 is all about foolish galations who disobey one single law how is this even valid to chistians ? when cleary that law is not for christians.

Galations 3 clearly says we keep our faith by obeying the law
Galations is about Galations who are adding the law to grace. And returning to the law

gal,3 clearly teaches the law was our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, but after that we are not longer under a tutor (the law)
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,863
2,515
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London
christianchat.com
#39
Who wants to be faced with facts, anyway!! Or we could look at the facts and say the Lord is in control of these things, maybe God rewards obedience to His ways. If only the Jews would obey when they are told to have faith in the Savior!!

Christians have faith in the Savior but most have no faith in the law. Jews have faith in the law and no faith in the Savior. I'd rather be a Christian, but you would think the Christians could have faith in both.
We do have faith in the law, we do not have faith that it can save us or that our salvation is in any way dependent upon keeping it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
We do have faith in the law, we do not have faith that it can save us or that our salvation is in any way dependent upon keeping it.
I keep thinking of Paul who wrote of these people,who want to be teachers of the law, yet they have no true knowledge of what it is.
it saddens me