"You Shall Know Them by Their Fruit." But How Much of Our Fruit Needs to be Hanging Out for Others to See?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,580
113
#1
Hey Everyone,

Almost every Christian knows these passages: "You shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:20,) and, "Either make the tree good and it's fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit." (Matthew 12:33)

In other words, we will know if someone is "truly a believer" if they produce the right kind of fruit in their lives, right? Seems like an easy concept. But something I wonder about is, "Exactly how much of our fruit to do we have to leave out on display in order for others to be 'convinced'?"

In other words, how do we balance:

Matthew 6:3 -- "When you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." (Keep it between you and the Lord,) versus:

Matthew 10:14 -- "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet." I know this verse is talking about the preaching of the Gospel, but I think it can also be applied to this situation as well -- please let me explain.

I have stated several times on the forum that one of my biggest challenges in my own Christian walk is that others within the church have deemed me "not Christian enough," and then try to strong-arm me into being more like what they believe is a Christian. This is a good part as to why I've become so strong-willed myself. I actively resist people who are more interested in making me like them (or into something they would like) and want me to do the things they want me to do rather than what I believe God is calling me to be.

One of the many reasons I am single is because I haven't been able to "prove myself" to be "enough of a Christian" to many who seem to demand proof. It's never enough for me to just be myself -- I do way too much of this, and way too little of that. I've been told that I talk to people way too much about their lives and situations and beliefs, rather than bombarding them right away with Scripture, which is what they feel I should be doing (and they won't listen to me when I try to explain that I personally find getting to really know a person to be the best way to lead into talking about Jesus in the first place.) It's just the way I think God built me.

One of the best examples I can think of is several years agowhen I was exchanging messages with a gentleman on a Christian web site. He had expressed interest in continuing to talk and eventually meet if things went in that direction... We were communicating in autumn, with the holidays being right around the corner. And then one day he wrote that he was no longer interested in talking to me because he had noticed that I use the phrase, "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas."

I tried to explain to him that for much of my life, my family and friends have all been long-distance and I rarely get to see or talk to them, so if I'm talking to someone right before all the major holidays are about to hit, then yes, I most certainly say, "Happy Holidays"! But he wouldn't listen to me, and instead gave me a big lecture about how I wasn't keeping Christ in Christmas and was obviously much too worldly for him to talk to.

No worries and no loss, and I totally understand. I would never want someone to continue talking to me if they felt I was somehow a threat to their faith -- henceforth, "shaking off the dust" and moving on, for both him, and for me.

But one of the biggest problems I've run into continually within the dating world is always being asked in some way, whether subtle or outright, if I'm "Christian enough" to meet the other person's demands.

It got to be so bad that I actually started keeping lists of the various versions of the Bible I had read entirely through, the classes I took, the ministries I participate in, and the charities I support, not as a brag sheet but to act as a simple self-defense against people who demand "proof" as to why I call myself a Christian.

I see it as being like a vaccine passport -- you have to absolutely PROVE that you check off enough boxes to qualify as having enough, or the right kind of fruit, or you are denied any further right to express yourself.

* How can I keep what I'm doing just between the Lord and myself when other Christians seem to constantly demand (not just ask) for tangible "proof" that's "good enough" to meet their "requirements"?

Even if you say you support a charity, that's definitely not good enough, because you will then receive a lecture on why most charities are criminal (which I do understand,) or that you should be giving that money to the church instead.

And I'm sure I'm not the only person who encounters this.

* How do you all deal with people who demand a visible, material proof of the fruit you are producing in your life?

* How much of your fruit do you allow people to see?

* And if someone demands further proof, what do you do? (Try your best to "prove yourself," or shake the dust off your feet and move on?) Why or why not?


What's that old saying... "Misery loves company?" :D

I would love to hear your stories about having to "prove yourself a Christian" and how God has taught you to handle it.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
113
#2
Personally I don't give a fart in a whirlwind what most people think about me. If they want proof that I'm a "real" christian I can call them a wicked and adulterous generation that seeks a sign. :p

The fruit the Bible mentions that should be showing is my attitude, not my actions. I can keep my left hand from knowing what the right is doing and still show those fruits a Christian is supposed to show.

The people I respect - the people that I care what they think of me - know who I am, not just what I do. If I have their respect, the rest can go hang. Let them go pester and out-holy each other.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
113
#3
However...

I do show my fruits when I answer those who want me to prove I'm Christian enough to be worthy of their time. I could snap at them or I could move on. (Usually there would be a third option about explaining the facts of life to them, but people like that won't listen.)
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
11,904
8,230
113
#4
I really dont care if people think I am not a Christian or not Christian enough. I have a relationship with God and he talks to me through the Holy Spirit so I am happy. I have seen that people who criticize are not perfect themselves and anything good in us is God in us so I just am not worried. If I come across someone who is like that they are not the sort of person I would like to get to know anyway so all is good.
 

cinder

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2014
4,327
2,358
113
#5
Well there's a very specific set of fruit talked about in Scripture, and that's the fruit of the spirit. And as I'm around people I find that people who show that kind of fruit in their lives are the people I want to be around more, even if they aren't christian people. So yep people who are loving, joyful, peacful, patient, kind, faithful, good, gentle etc are the people who reflect the character of God and I like being around that and I'm much more likely to listen to such people.

If I can be bothered to give the religious busybodies the time of day, well they will regret it because I'll probably throw out those verses about in humility consider others better than yourselves and the Lord Lord look at all the awesome things we did in your name and he says depart from me I never knew you. Actually becoming a pet peeve of mine when Christians look at the mess in other people's lives and say "oh, that person just needs Jesus" as if that will magically solve all their problems. One of these days I'm going to start replying something like, ok so what are you doing about it and when they do come to Jesus and start coming to your church how are you going to help them through all these very real problems in their lives with no easy answer.

Though if we're going to be brutally honest, these days I'm barely holding on to church attendance by a thread and find myself more and more in the part of the old testatment where God warns people, when everything is going well, don't forget me or put your trust in other providers. The foundation of faith I have has given me innumberable benefits that I'm only half aware of (usually in the form of seeing people doing stupid horrible things and only being able to think, what's wrong with this person that they ever thought this behavior was in any way ok), but the day to day practicality of faith, sometimes it's difficult to see what the value of actively keeping it up is (other than the basic if I stop believing God is in control then things will get ugly really fast, I'm just not sure which direction of ugly they'd go).
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,173
113
#6
huh well never paid that much attention to church busybodies otherwise I mighht have become one myself.

In the dating world, well, not that Im in it much these days, if someone professes they are a christian or has faith, I kind of wait to see what they say about it or do. If they are totally reluctant to talk about God or matters of faith then I dont press the issue.

I think everyone has a testimony of some sort but its not always the right time to share it because it could actually be quite a long story!

as for fruit well the fruit may not be in season at the time, so maybe you just store some away. I think if someone is showing that they are loving, kind, gentle, temperate, peaceful, joyful it will be quite obvious anyway, theres no hiding that plus there is no law against it.
I dont think you can actually demand fruit off a tree it doesnt work like that lol. Sometimes when a tree doesnt fruit, its because they dont get enough sun, or there arent enough other trees around for pollination, but you cant demand apples from a pine tree for example. You sort of have to have some plant ID cos it would be silly to mix those trees up.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#7
Hey Everyone,

Almost every Christian knows these passages: "You shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:20,) and, "Either make the tree good and it's fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit." (Matthew 12:33)

In other words, we will know if someone is "truly a believer" if they produce the right kind of fruit in their lives, right? Seems like an easy concept. But something I wonder about is, "Exactly how much of our fruit to do we have to leave out on display in order for others to be 'convinced'?"

In other words, how do we balance:
If you look at it from the other side, if a person is partying, being sexually immoral, getting drunk, doing drugs, etc., then you don't really need to gage it by the good fruit, because the continual bad fruit will give you the answer.
 
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
43
#8
Hey Everyone,

Almost every Christian knows these passages: "You shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:20,) and, "Either make the tree good and it's fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit." (Matthew 12:33)

In other words, we will know if someone is "truly a believer" if they produce the right kind of fruit in their lives, right? Seems like an easy concept. But something I wonder about is, "Exactly how much of our fruit to do we have to leave out on display in order for others to be 'convinced'?"

In other words, how do we balance:

Matthew 6:3 -- "When you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." (Keep it between you and the Lord,) versus:

Matthew 10:14 -- "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet." I know this verse is talking about the preaching of the Gospel, but I think it can also be applied to this situation as well -- please let me explain.

I have stated several times on the forum that one of my biggest challenges in my own Christian walk is that others within the church have deemed me "not Christian enough," and then try to strong-arm me into being more like what they believe is a Christian. This is a good part as to why I've become so strong-willed myself. I actively resist people who are more interested in making me like them (or into something they would like) and want me to do the things they want me to do rather than what I believe God is calling me to be.

One of the many reasons I am single is because I haven't been able to "prove myself" to be "enough of a Christian" to many who seem to demand proof. It's never enough for me to just be myself -- I do way too much of this, and way too little of that. I've been told that I talk to people way too much about their lives and situations and beliefs, rather than bombarding them right away with Scripture, which is what they feel I should be doing (and they won't listen to me when I try to explain that I personally find getting to really know a person to be the best way to lead into talking about Jesus in the first place.) It's just the way I think God built me.

One of the best examples I can think of is several years agowhen I was exchanging messages with a gentleman on a Christian web site. He had expressed interest in continuing to talk and eventually meet if things went in that direction... We were communicating in autumn, with the holidays being right around the corner. And then one day he wrote that he was no longer interested in talking to me because he had noticed that I use the phrase, "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas."

I tried to explain to him that for much of my life, my family and friends have all been long-distance and I rarely get to see or talk to them, so if I'm talking to someone right before all the major holidays are about to hit, then yes, I most certainly say, "Happy Holidays"! But he wouldn't listen to me, and instead gave me a big lecture about how I wasn't keeping Christ in Christmas and was obviously much too worldly for him to talk to.

No worries and no loss, and I totally understand. I would never want someone to continue talking to me if they felt I was somehow a threat to their faith -- henceforth, "shaking off the dust" and moving on, for both him, and for me.

But one of the biggest problems I've run into continually within the dating world is always being asked in some way, whether subtle or outright, if I'm "Christian enough" to meet the other person's demands.

It got to be so bad that I actually started keeping lists of the various versions of the Bible I had read entirely through, the classes I took, the ministries I participate in, and the charities I support, not as a brag sheet but to act as a simple self-defense against people who demand "proof" as to why I call myself a Christian.

I see it as being like a vaccine passport -- you have to absolutely PROVE that you check off enough boxes to qualify as having enough, or the right kind of fruit, or you are denied any further right to express yourself.

* How can I keep what I'm doing just between the Lord and myself when other Christians seem to constantly demand (not just ask) for tangible "proof" that's "good enough" to meet their "requirements"?

Even if you say you support a charity, that's definitely not good enough, because you will then receive a lecture on why most charities are criminal (which I do understand,) or that you should be giving that money to the church instead.

And I'm sure I'm not the only person who encounters this.

* How do you all deal with people who demand a visible, material proof of the fruit you are producing in your life?

* How much of your fruit do you allow people to see?

* And if someone demands further proof, what do you do? (Try your best to "prove yourself," or shake the dust off your feet and move on?) Why or why not?


What's that old saying... "Misery loves company?" :D

I would love to hear your stories about having to "prove yourself a Christian" and how God has taught you to handle it.
Jesus commands his followers to repent and believe the gospel. Repent means turn around from the way you were living (in sin and rebellion to God, with the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life). When you repent and believe, you are abiding in Christ and Christ is abiding in you, and the fruits of repentance and faith will be evident in your your life for all to see. If you don't repent and believe, you'll be like a dry and rotted branch, and no fruit will grow from your life.
 
Apr 11, 2020
57
52
18
#9
"church people" are a major roadblock for a lost and dying world to see the gift of God's salvation. I attend a church only for the worship and teaching. I do no allow myself to make friends with the people there. I will not serve in any capacity in a church again. I may be wrong, but I believe that many, if not most, Americans in churches are insincere and go to church for social or other reasons. Too many church people have no problem hurting other believers. I don't know if this answers the OP's original question, but I believe most American church people bear no fruit of the Spirit.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
3,644
2,860
113
#10
Hey Everyone,

Almost every Christian knows these passages: "You shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:20,) and, "Either make the tree good and it's fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit." (Matthew 12:33)

In other words, we will know if someone is "truly a believer" if they produce the right kind of fruit in their lives, right? Seems like an easy concept. But something I wonder about is, "Exactly how much of our fruit to do we have to leave out on display in order for others to be 'convinced'?"

In other words, how do we balance:

Matthew 6:3 -- "When you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." (Keep it between you and the Lord,) versus:

Matthew 10:14 -- "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet." I know this verse is talking about the preaching of the Gospel, but I think it can also be applied to this situation as well -- please let me explain.

I have stated several times on the forum that one of my biggest challenges in my own Christian walk is that others within the church have deemed me "not Christian enough," and then try to strong-arm me into being more like what they believe is a Christian. This is a good part as to why I've become so strong-willed myself. I actively resist people who are more interested in making me like them (or into something they would like) and want me to do the things they want me to do rather than what I believe God is calling me to be.

One of the many reasons I am single is because I haven't been able to "prove myself" to be "enough of a Christian" to many who seem to demand proof. It's never enough for me to just be myself -- I do way too much of this, and way too little of that. I've been told that I talk to people way too much about their lives and situations and beliefs, rather than bombarding them right away with Scripture, which is what they feel I should be doing (and they won't listen to me when I try to explain that I personally find getting to really know a person to be the best way to lead into talking about Jesus in the first place.) It's just the way I think God built me.

One of the best examples I can think of is several years agowhen I was exchanging messages with a gentleman on a Christian web site. He had expressed interest in continuing to talk and eventually meet if things went in that direction... We were communicating in autumn, with the holidays being right around the corner. And then one day he wrote that he was no longer interested in talking to me because he had noticed that I use the phrase, "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas."

I tried to explain to him that for much of my life, my family and friends have all been long-distance and I rarely get to see or talk to them, so if I'm talking to someone right before all the major holidays are about to hit, then yes, I most certainly say, "Happy Holidays"! But he wouldn't listen to me, and instead gave me a big lecture about how I wasn't keeping Christ in Christmas and was obviously much too worldly for him to talk to.

No worries and no loss, and I totally understand. I would never want someone to continue talking to me if they felt I was somehow a threat to their faith -- henceforth, "shaking off the dust" and moving on, for both him, and for me.

But one of the biggest problems I've run into continually within the dating world is always being asked in some way, whether subtle or outright, if I'm "Christian enough" to meet the other person's demands.

It got to be so bad that I actually started keeping lists of the various versions of the Bible I had read entirely through, the classes I took, the ministries I participate in, and the charities I support, not as a brag sheet but to act as a simple self-defense against people who demand "proof" as to why I call myself a Christian.

I see it as being like a vaccine passport -- you have to absolutely PROVE that you check off enough boxes to qualify as having enough, or the right kind of fruit, or you are denied any further right to express yourself.

* How can I keep what I'm doing just between the Lord and myself when other Christians seem to constantly demand (not just ask) for tangible "proof" that's "good enough" to meet their "requirements"?

Even if you say you support a charity, that's definitely not good enough, because you will then receive a lecture on why most charities are criminal (which I do understand,) or that you should be giving that money to the church instead.

And I'm sure I'm not the only person who encounters this.

* How do you all deal with people who demand a visible, material proof of the fruit you are producing in your life?

* How much of your fruit do you allow people to see?

* And if someone demands further proof, what do you do? (Try your best to "prove yourself," or shake the dust off your feet and move on?) Why or why not?


What's that old saying... "Misery loves company?" :D

I would love to hear your stories about having to "prove yourself a Christian" and how God has taught you to handle it.
I think the notion here is an "overflowing". If you do occasional good deed to say you did a good deed, no one will know, unless you publicize it. I believe when your fruit shows it's because it's a normal thing for you and it will eventually be recognized, even if you aren't trying to publicize them.
But, of course, for those who are more religious, they'll never notice because they aren't judging by God's standards, but by theirs. And when imperfection demands perfection there is no satisfaction.

As far as keeping a list to prove anything to anyone, I'd never waste my time. If someone is so self righteous and demanding that you have to prove yourself with a list, then they aren't worth the time wasted. And if they demand some proof just quote Galatians 2:20 and leave it at that.

Some people just thrive on self righteousness and judgment. I've had many times when I explained my experiences as a Christian teen and all the ways I was involved and active just to be told "those are all works and proves nothing". 🙄
People approach you with their mind made up, and unless you stumble into this tiny niche of man made holiness, them you'll never pacify them. Sometimes even when you give them nothing to complain about they'll still hold their preconceived notions, real or imagined, against you.
 

cinder

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2014
4,327
2,358
113
#11
"church people" are a major roadblock for a lost and dying world to see the gift of God's salvation. I attend a church only for the worship and teaching. I do no allow myself to make friends with the people there. I will not serve in any capacity in a church again. I may be wrong, but I believe that many, if not most, Americans in churches are insincere and go to church for social or other reasons. Too many church people have no problem hurting other believers. I don't know if this answers the OP's original question, but I believe most American church people bear no fruit of the Spirit.
So because people fail and hurt others and are more human than perfect they must not be sincere and have no fruit. Is that your line of logic? Do such standards make you insincere as well or have you always kept the standards you apply to others perfectly?
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,719
113
#12
Hey Everyone,

Almost every Christian knows these passages: "You shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:20,) and, "Either make the tree good and it's fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit." (Matthew 12:33)

In other words, we will know if someone is "truly a believer" if they produce the right kind of fruit in their lives, right? Seems like an easy concept. But something I wonder about is, "Exactly how much of our fruit to do we have to leave out on display in order for others to be 'convinced'?"

In other words, how do we balance:

Matthew 6:3 -- "When you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." (Keep it between you and the Lord,) versus:

Matthew 10:14 -- "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet." I know this verse is talking about the preaching of the Gospel, but I think it can also be applied to this situation as well -- please let me explain.

I have stated several times on the forum that one of my biggest challenges in my own Christian walk is that others within the church have deemed me "not Christian enough," and then try to strong-arm me into being more like what they believe is a Christian. This is a good part as to why I've become so strong-willed myself. I actively resist people who are more interested in making me like them (or into something they would like) and want me to do the things they want me to do rather than what I believe God is calling me to be.

One of the many reasons I am single is because I haven't been able to "prove myself" to be "enough of a Christian" to many who seem to demand proof. It's never enough for me to just be myself -- I do way too much of this, and way too little of that. I've been told that I talk to people way too much about their lives and situations and beliefs, rather than bombarding them right away with Scripture, which is what they feel I should be doing (and they won't listen to me when I try to explain that I personally find getting to really know a person to be the best way to lead into talking about Jesus in the first place.) It's just the way I think God built me.

One of the best examples I can think of is several years agowhen I was exchanging messages with a gentleman on a Christian web site. He had expressed interest in continuing to talk and eventually meet if things went in that direction... We were communicating in autumn, with the holidays being right around the corner. And then one day he wrote that he was no longer interested in talking to me because he had noticed that I use the phrase, "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas."

I tried to explain to him that for much of my life, my family and friends have all been long-distance and I rarely get to see or talk to them, so if I'm talking to someone right before all the major holidays are about to hit, then yes, I most certainly say, "Happy Holidays"! But he wouldn't listen to me, and instead gave me a big lecture about how I wasn't keeping Christ in Christmas and was obviously much too worldly for him to talk to.

No worries and no loss, and I totally understand. I would never want someone to continue talking to me if they felt I was somehow a threat to their faith -- henceforth, "shaking off the dust" and moving on, for both him, and for me.

But one of the biggest problems I've run into continually within the dating world is always being asked in some way, whether subtle or outright, if I'm "Christian enough" to meet the other person's demands.

It got to be so bad that I actually started keeping lists of the various versions of the Bible I had read entirely through, the classes I took, the ministries I participate in, and the charities I support, not as a brag sheet but to act as a simple self-defense against people who demand "proof" as to why I call myself a Christian.

I see it as being like a vaccine passport -- you have to absolutely PROVE that you check off enough boxes to qualify as having enough, or the right kind of fruit, or you are denied any further right to express yourself.

* How can I keep what I'm doing just between the Lord and myself when other Christians seem to constantly demand (not just ask) for tangible "proof" that's "good enough" to meet their "requirements"?

Even if you say you support a charity, that's definitely not good enough, because you will then receive a lecture on why most charities are criminal (which I do understand,) or that you should be giving that money to the church instead.

And I'm sure I'm not the only person who encounters this.

* How do you all deal with people who demand a visible, material proof of the fruit you are producing in your life?

* How much of your fruit do you allow people to see?

* And if someone demands further proof, what do you do? (Try your best to "prove yourself," or shake the dust off your feet and move on?) Why or why not?


What's that old saying... "Misery loves company?" :D

I would love to hear your stories about having to "prove yourself a Christian" and how God has taught you to handle it.
If people could see each other's day to day struggles it would be much harder to be "holier than thou" If youve been through a grinder and still believe in God, I think thats great fruit.
 
Apr 11, 2020
57
52
18
#14
If people could see each other's day to day struggles it would be much harder to be "holier than thou" If youve been through a grinder and still believe in God, I think thats great fruit.
I will not share my experiences here, but I totally agree.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,173
113
#15
there are so many versions of the Bible I cant keep track anyway.
I just have the one Bible version it just makes it easier (for me) and if someone has an issue with hating the one I happen to read Im like -- how about minding your own business just as I do mine?
 

Encouragement

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2020
1,487
1,305
113
#16
Hey Everyone,

Almost every Christian knows these passages: "You shall know them by their fruits," (Matthew 7:20,) and, "Either make the tree good and it's fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit." (Matthew 12:33)

In other words, we will know if someone is "truly a believer" if they produce the right kind of fruit in their lives, right? Seems like an easy concept. But something I wonder about is, "Exactly how much of our fruit to do we have to leave out on display in order for others to be 'convinced'?"

In other words, how do we balance:

Matthew 6:3 -- "When you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." (Keep it between you and the Lord,) versus:

Matthew 10:14 -- "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet." I know this verse is talking about the preaching of the Gospel, but I think it can also be applied to this situation as well -- please let me explain.

I have stated several times on the forum that one of my biggest challenges in my own Christian walk is that others within the church have deemed me "not Christian enough," and then try to strong-arm me into being more like what they believe is a Christian. This is a good part as to why I've become so strong-willed myself. I actively resist people who are more interested in making me like them (or into something they would like) and want me to do the things they want me to do rather than what I believe God is calling me to be.

One of the many reasons I am single is because I haven't been able to "prove myself" to be "enough of a Christian" to many who seem to demand proof. It's never enough for me to just be myself -- I do way too much of this, and way too little of that. I've been told that I talk to people way too much about their lives and situations and beliefs, rather than bombarding them right away with Scripture, which is what they feel I should be doing (and they won't listen to me when I try to explain that I personally find getting to really know a person to be the best way to lead into talking about Jesus in the first place.) It's just the way I think God built me.

One of the best examples I can think of is several years agowhen I was exchanging messages with a gentleman on a Christian web site. He had expressed interest in continuing to talk and eventually meet if things went in that direction... We were communicating in autumn, with the holidays being right around the corner. And then one day he wrote that he was no longer interested in talking to me because he had noticed that I use the phrase, "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas."

I tried to explain to him that for much of my life, my family and friends have all been long-distance and I rarely get to see or talk to them, so if I'm talking to someone right before all the major holidays are about to hit, then yes, I most certainly say, "Happy Holidays"! But he wouldn't listen to me, and instead gave me a big lecture about how I wasn't keeping Christ in Christmas and was obviously much too worldly for him to talk to.

No worries and no loss, and I totally understand. I would never want someone to continue talking to me if they felt I was somehow a threat to their faith -- henceforth, "shaking off the dust" and moving on, for both him, and for me.

But one of the biggest problems I've run into continually within the dating world is always being asked in some way, whether subtle or outright, if I'm "Christian enough" to meet the other person's demands.

It got to be so bad that I actually started keeping lists of the various versions of the Bible I had read entirely through, the classes I took, the ministries I participate in, and the charities I support, not as a brag sheet but to act as a simple self-defense against people who demand "proof" as to why I call myself a Christian.

I see it as being like a vaccine passport -- you have to absolutely PROVE that you check off enough boxes to qualify as having enough, or the right kind of fruit, or you are denied any further right to express yourself.

* How can I keep what I'm doing just between the Lord and myself when other Christians seem to constantly demand (not just ask) for tangible "proof" that's "good enough" to meet their "requirements"?

Even if you say you support a charity, that's definitely not good enough, because you will then receive a lecture on why most charities are criminal (which I do understand,) or that you should be giving that money to the church instead.

And I'm sure I'm not the only person who encounters this.

* How do you all deal with people who demand a visible, material proof of the fruit you are producing in your life?

* How much of your fruit do you allow people to see?

* And if someone demands further proof, what do you do? (Try your best to "prove yourself," or shake the dust off your feet and move on?) Why or why not?


What's that old saying... "Misery loves company?" :D

I would love to hear your stories about having to "prove yourself a Christian" and how God has taught you to handle it.
This whole thing kind boils down to other Christians almost using christianity like the law to determine your validity...it can open people up to feelings of failure and inadequacy.
There are some pretty obvious things that are red flags..wild partying,having no real Christian morals of right and wrong..ie..sex,drugs ect...
Remember Mary and Martha....one was doing things FOR jesus and the other one was just spending time with him yet theres no actual activity from her doing anything.Sometimes a person can do lots of christian outward activity but when you get to know them there isnt much there in terms of substance.

It can be so easy for someone to be demanding proof but to be honest they have no right to be 'demanding' anything I that sense and no matter what things a person may be doing ect...it doesn't always give evidence of devotion to christ.The attitude of their heart does which only God truly knows.When you meet someone just get to know then in a more relaxed way and make sure you spend time praying about them and ask God to give you a discerning mind to pick things up that he will showe you about the person.What we look for is compatibility not perfection...but not having an attitude of 'entitlement'.
I met someone once who has really attractive, active as a Christian but my goodness their attitude was just terrible.They had no real interest I my life and every thing has to revolve around them and they had this mindset of entitlement and I ended things a few weeks later.
I often find that just be interaction with someone someone gets to know what I'm about and yes of course I chat about Christian activities I do..but those things don't define me...its the type of person that I am that defines me more.
If someone 'demands' proof of the fruit of my life and displays a kind of self righteous pride I will never yield to that kinda attitude because they have a judgemental mindset which is condescending.I have come across a few like this and it never ends good.
Plus I have been through times in my life when I am struggling with stuff and spending more time alone with God ect yet there may not necessarily be anything exciting going on outwardly in my life..but my life is still being fruitful in terms of my relationship with God,devotion to him ect.
So what someone else identifies as fruit in your life is not what God defines as fruit in your life.
What you have described are Christian traits who are over judgemental and almost using the truth of Gods word or their own expectations like the law against you which isn't healthy.
Even if they could be right technically...it still doesn't mean that they Are right.It is possible to be right but oh so very wrong.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,173
113
#17
Jesus solution for unfruitful trees...plenty of manure. wait for a year. If it doesnt fruit, cut it down.

yes manure. When going through life, you have to deal with poo.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
113
#18
Jesus solution for unfruitful trees...plenty of manure. wait for a year. If it doesnt fruit, cut it down.

yes manure. When going through life, you have to deal with poo.
Yes... Yes we sure do...