Is modern praise and worship simply a form of conjuring?
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I totally agree. God came down of His own doing.
But show me an example of the New Testament church "calling down" the Spirit for 45 minutes to an hour. Perhaps you've researched this.
But show me an example of the New Testament church "calling down" the Spirit for 45 minutes to an hour. Perhaps you've researched this.
Luke 11:13 KJV
seems like one on earth asking for the spirit from heaven above would be calling it down to them on earth
No, it doesn't sound like calling the Holy Spirit down to earth at all.
I'm not saying we shouldn't ask for the Holy Spirit's help. But Luke 11:13 has nothing to do with the kind of hypnotic corporate worship services I'm talking about.
I find it interesting that you refer to the Holy Spirit as "it." I don't know if this was an oversight on your part or if it reflects your true way of seeing the Spirit. Is He the third person of the trinity or a thing, a force, that can be manipulated?
I'm not saying we shouldn't ask for the Holy Spirit's help. But Luke 11:13 has nothing to do with the kind of hypnotic corporate worship services I'm talking about.
I find it interesting that you refer to the Holy Spirit as "it." I don't know if this was an oversight on your part or if it reflects your true way of seeing the Spirit. Is He the third person of the trinity or a thing, a force, that can be manipulated?
If Pentecostals praising him for 45min rubs you the wrong way.....
Wait until you get to heaven and there are thousands upon thousands of angels & humans praising him for hours on end.
Where day & night the living creatures never stop saying "Holy Holy Holy Lord" and the elders fall to the ground in worship
- you might really be offended.
Praising God in assembly is part of being in relationship with him.
Wait until you get to heaven and there are thousands upon thousands of angels & humans praising him for hours on end.
Where day & night the living creatures never stop saying "Holy Holy Holy Lord" and the elders fall to the ground in worship
- you might really be offended.
Praising God in assembly is part of being in relationship with him.
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The Holy Spirit is God, thats true. But the Adressat for worshipping is God the father or the Lord Jesus! The Holy Spirit came for to translate our prayers to God, not for to be worshipped. I dont know an exampel of the NT time after pentecost where believers are encouraged to worship the Holy Spirit. Maby you can Show me?
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The Holy Spirit came for to teach what our Lord Jesus taught. He is here instead of the Lord Jesus.
I dont need to invite somebody who is already there. If the Holy Spirit is living in us. We have company. I dont have to ask him to come.
I ask a friend to have company with me when he is not there. If he is my room already I dont need to ask him. Come to me.
I dont need to invite somebody who is already there. If the Holy Spirit is living in us. We have company. I dont have to ask him to come.
I ask a friend to have company with me when he is not there. If he is my room already I dont need to ask him. Come to me.
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Yes, thats right. But God condemned the nation later, because they praise Him with their lips, but not with the heart. If I am not wrong.
The heart is the point. We can sing and pray for hours, if it is not an expression of our heart it is worthless on Gods eyes.
And he is the One who knows our heart.
The heart is the point. We can sing and pray for hours, if it is not an expression of our heart it is worthless on Gods eyes.
And he is the One who knows our heart.
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Fine, but bible teaches us for to ask and pray in the name of our Lord Jesus to our heavenly father. Jesus gave the so called Lordsprayer. You can read Pauls letter to the ephesians or the philliper. Adressat for the praise is always God the father. No Single example to praise or pray to the Holy Spirit.
Why? It is what God wants so.
If you say you tell the Holy Spirit you love Him, then you dont tell Jesus or the father that you love Him. Thats my impression.
Why? It is what God wants so.
If you say you tell the Holy Spirit you love Him, then you dont tell Jesus or the father that you love Him. Thats my impression.
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As for the title-- no, I do not see this as 'conjuring.' Conjuring sounds like something demonic.
In Acts 11, we read how the Spirit fell upon those gathered at Cornelius house. The idea of the Spirit falling is a Biblical concept. The Psalms have prayers requesting God to do things-- Let God arise and His enemies be scattered. When we pray, we often ask God to do things. That's not unbiblical.
If you want to argue that anything in this video goes against a specific precept of scripture, go ahead.
I believe in spiritual gifts and I am used to music like this as well as older hymns. I have noticed some of the preaching and songs in certain churches do pay a lot of attention to feeling God's presence or things along those lines, more than I see in scripture. So I share a little concern about how much the concept is emphasized, but nothing really to cause me to think this sort of thing is heretical.
I have heard concerns that it may not be appropriate to pray to the Holy Spirit since this is not modeled or taught in scripture, but I cannot think of any line in this song that does that off the top of my head. Maybe East Germanic 'Aryans', if they held to the same confession as Wulfias might have had strong concerns about this. They may have accepted the deity of Christ but not the personhood of the Spirit. Maybe some of the WorldWide Church of God offshoots have an issue with it. But I haven't encountered Pentecostals or Charismatics who deny the personhood of the Spirit.
In Acts 11, we read how the Spirit fell upon those gathered at Cornelius house. The idea of the Spirit falling is a Biblical concept. The Psalms have prayers requesting God to do things-- Let God arise and His enemies be scattered. When we pray, we often ask God to do things. That's not unbiblical.
If you want to argue that anything in this video goes against a specific precept of scripture, go ahead.
I believe in spiritual gifts and I am used to music like this as well as older hymns. I have noticed some of the preaching and songs in certain churches do pay a lot of attention to feeling God's presence or things along those lines, more than I see in scripture. So I share a little concern about how much the concept is emphasized, but nothing really to cause me to think this sort of thing is heretical.
I have heard concerns that it may not be appropriate to pray to the Holy Spirit since this is not modeled or taught in scripture, but I cannot think of any line in this song that does that off the top of my head. Maybe East Germanic 'Aryans', if they held to the same confession as Wulfias might have had strong concerns about this. They may have accepted the deity of Christ but not the personhood of the Spirit. Maybe some of the WorldWide Church of God offshoots have an issue with it. But I haven't encountered Pentecostals or Charismatics who deny the personhood of the Spirit.
but the two or three must worship as you think? SO asking God to come and heal our Land is not ok to pray and ask? Asking the Holy Spirit to Come in your power are your own special way is not acknowledging The Holy Spirit has power and is able to help?
It is sad, that now many are telling us to worship the way they do as an individual expression to God is not having to be controlled.
I am not saying disagree with your comment I know you are a good Child of God, however, there are those ( not You)
who say such things about how one worship yet they approve and try to make every movie and music they like about God as an example :
I have heard ministers tell the parents as they were having to push back on the Harry Potter crazy to let their kids see the movie when the first one came out because it mentioned Love. And he went on to say that Christians should try to always find God and seek something Good in every situation.
Now we have John Macarthur attacking Christian worship music because they have what he says is theological errors in the music and are taking the Holy Spirit's name in vain. That is a presupposition, Mr. Macarthur. Do YOu now know the intent of the person who sings a song? And judging those who sing songs as they are blaspheming the Holy Spirt? I guess everyone is on their way to hell if they don't worship the way it makes you feel?
Hillsong and Bethel have a movement which I agree on with Mr. Macarthur very well would be a movement without the music, however, when I hear a John Macarthur say such things, when He has the knowledge how to correct and use what God has given to ensure what has done by God is corrected, he chooses to attack it.
Does anyone think that Hillsong has not had God in it, as All movements of God that man and the devil have perverted?
Can you name one movement of God man has not messed up over the years? WE need to come together because I can ensure you that if those Baptist, Pentecostals and every other Christian faith do not and stay divided the church and this nation is through.
The church of the Living God has lost many battles and we have stood by and watched all have that sin. The Baptist, Pentecostals, etc...
Every dynamic teacher has this sin too.
We, I say WE stood by as:
Now, all we do today it talks and circles our wagon around the camp we agree with YET blind to the truth we all are losing another generation. The greatest concern today is the theological error of worship music that one doesn't like.
It is sad, that now many are telling us to worship the way they do as an individual expression to God is not having to be controlled.
I am not saying disagree with your comment I know you are a good Child of God, however, there are those ( not You)
who say such things about how one worship yet they approve and try to make every movie and music they like about God as an example :
- Lord of The Rings
- Herry Potter
- Stryper
- phinehas
- The Devil wears Prada
- AntiDemon
I have heard ministers tell the parents as they were having to push back on the Harry Potter crazy to let their kids see the movie when the first one came out because it mentioned Love. And he went on to say that Christians should try to always find God and seek something Good in every situation.
Now we have John Macarthur attacking Christian worship music because they have what he says is theological errors in the music and are taking the Holy Spirit's name in vain. That is a presupposition, Mr. Macarthur. Do YOu now know the intent of the person who sings a song? And judging those who sing songs as they are blaspheming the Holy Spirt? I guess everyone is on their way to hell if they don't worship the way it makes you feel?
Hillsong and Bethel have a movement which I agree on with Mr. Macarthur very well would be a movement without the music, however, when I hear a John Macarthur say such things, when He has the knowledge how to correct and use what God has given to ensure what has done by God is corrected, he chooses to attack it.
Does anyone think that Hillsong has not had God in it, as All movements of God that man and the devil have perverted?
Can you name one movement of God man has not messed up over the years? WE need to come together because I can ensure you that if those Baptist, Pentecostals and every other Christian faith do not and stay divided the church and this nation is through.
The church of the Living God has lost many battles and we have stood by and watched all have that sin. The Baptist, Pentecostals, etc...
Every dynamic teacher has this sin too.
We, I say WE stood by as:
- 62 million babies are murders called abortion
- gay marriage and transgender took over
- watch divorce and welfare break up the family
- as children are shot in the dead in places Like Chicago
- we stood by as Iraq Christian were murdered for their faith
Now, all we do today it talks and circles our wagon around the camp we agree with YET blind to the truth we all are losing another generation. The greatest concern today is the theological error of worship music that one doesn't like.
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Why would this be more honoring to the creature more than the creator? That terminology is used in Romans 1 in a passage about idolatry and same-sex behavior. This song is full of praises to God and prayer to become more aware of God's presence. Christian theology traditionally accepts omnipresence mas one of God's attributes. Acts speaks of the Spirit falling.
What does the Bible say about 'emotional states' in relation to praising God? The Psalms commend listeners to rejoice, to praise the Lord, even to dance. Why would this type of practice be associated with idolatry?
Consider these scriptures, quoted from the ESV, bold emphasis mine.
Psalm 5:11
But let all who take refuge in you rejoice; let them ever sing for joy, and spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may exult in you.
Psalm 16:11
You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
Maybe the real question here is if you see a room full of people singing praises and prayers to God, why would you despise or ridicule it? Do you remember the story of David and Micah?
I can watch a choir singing traditional Anglican hymns or a country-style hymns of praise and join in and praise God with those doing it. Shouldn't you be able to do that with more 'contemporary' songs of praise to the Lord?
Where is the warning in the Bible against heightened emotional states in relation to praising God... or anything at all? Where is the warning about music and emotion? Some people have their own fears and concerns that have nothing at all to do with the teaching of the Bible.
Another passage to consider is in II Kings 3. When Elisha was called upon to inquire of the LORD, he called for a minstrel. As the music played, the hand of the Lord came upon him and he prophesied.
What does the Bible say about 'emotional states' in relation to praising God? The Psalms commend listeners to rejoice, to praise the Lord, even to dance. Why would this type of practice be associated with idolatry?
Consider these scriptures, quoted from the ESV, bold emphasis mine.
Psalm 5:11
But let all who take refuge in you rejoice; let them ever sing for joy, and spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may exult in you.
Psalm 16:11
You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
Maybe the real question here is if you see a room full of people singing praises and prayers to God, why would you despise or ridicule it? Do you remember the story of David and Micah?
I can watch a choir singing traditional Anglican hymns or a country-style hymns of praise and join in and praise God with those doing it. Shouldn't you be able to do that with more 'contemporary' songs of praise to the Lord?
Where is the warning in the Bible against heightened emotional states in relation to praising God... or anything at all? Where is the warning about music and emotion? Some people have their own fears and concerns that have nothing at all to do with the teaching of the Bible.
Another passage to consider is in II Kings 3. When Elisha was called upon to inquire of the LORD, he called for a minstrel. As the music played, the hand of the Lord came upon him and he prophesied.
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S
I don't have that problem
as you say, God knows our hearts
does that make you uncomfortable? you cannot tell other people how to worship anymore than you can mandate others to receive poison into their bodies
you said in the other thread people should be forced to have the covid shot
what would you like to force on people here?
as you say, God knows our hearts
does that make you uncomfortable? you cannot tell other people how to worship anymore than you can mandate others to receive poison into their bodies
you said in the other thread people should be forced to have the covid shot
what would you like to force on people here?