If the cannon of the NT were defined today

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Sumerian

New member
Sep 5, 2021
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#21
what books would you add from historical books around the early church era.
Well not historical, but I would add the letters of Clement of Rome. I would remove the book of Revelation and Song of Solomon and Esther and Daniel, they are historically inaccurate and/or useless for any good purpose.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#22
So we're talking about writings inspired through the Holy Spirit to meet the qualification for Biblical inclusion?

The real question, in my opinion, is does God still send messages to prophets in the present day? If the answer is yes then it's possible that any Christian capable of receiving a divine message from God could add their own writings to the Biblical canon.
No, it isn't.

God finished writing the canon of Scripture in the first century. Prophecy does not equal "scripture", as Scripture itself testifies. Saul prophesied; where is his "book"? Philip's daughters prophesied; where is their "book"?

God still speaks to His people, but those messages are not to be considered "additions to Scripture" and must be either consistent with Scripture or simply personal messages that don't contradict Scripture.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#23
No, it isn't.

God finished writing the canon of Scripture in the first century. Prophecy does not equal "scripture", as Scripture itself testifies. Saul prophesied; where is his "book"? Philip's daughters prophesied; where is their "book"?

God still speaks to His people, but those messages are not to be considered "additions to Scripture" and must be either consistent with Scripture or simply personal messages that don't contradict Scripture.
How do we know that God finished the canon of scripture? What is that theory based on?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,676
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#24
How do we know that God finished the canon of scripture? What is that theory based on?
That's a great question, to which I don't have the answer offhand. It's one I need to consider. :)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#25
But ir was never a part of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). Even before the time of Christ, the Tanakh had only 24 books, and Christ put His stamp of approval on that number by defining the OT as (1) The Law (Torah) -- 5 books, (2) The Prophets (Neviim) -- 8 books, and (3) The Psalms (Ketuvim) -- 11 books (because this section called "The Writings" begins with the book of Psalms). There was no place for Enoch in this list.

For the NT, Peter calls all of Paul's epistles Scripture. Peter calls his own epistles "a more sure word of prophecy". Luke says that his Gospel was "from above" and Paul quotes it as Scripture. Revelation plainly tells it that it was from God the Father, given to God the Son, who then had it conveyed to John by an angel. John also testifies that his testimony is true and sure (regarding his other writings). And all the other books have indications that they are also from above.
You need to explain all this to Jude, and the people who lived during the tine of Christ who didn't know you would come along to tell them what they thought was scripture actually wasn't.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#26
what books would you add from historical books around the early church era.
Im not sure anything needs be added , but early Christian writings are often helpful and edifying so Long as they don’t part from the faith taught by Christ and the epistles we have

often it’s a matter of people determining if something is “ official “ which is why some books weren’t included some of the tests were withered and incomplete others were determined to be not “ official “ by the early Roman Catholic Church.

I would siggest reading the apocalypse of Paul 3 Corinthians’s , and peters apocalypse in study but not that they should be included in scripture the Bible contains for various reasons

mostly because we have grown up in those scriptures in the Bible and have a hearts trust in them as well as potential controversy among believers who think other letters such as Paul’s apocalypse aren’t genuine

I find that the content of many early writings non canon writings I mean can tell us whether they are genuine because they never part from scripture but only serve to further support the truth of scriptures message

Paul’s apocalypse is something that really makes sense given his other writings like this

“For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then there’s this beautiful writing of the earth and heavens crying out as witnesses of mans sin and mans redemption on the apocalypse but it’s value should be weighed unevenly against scriptire as a matter of faith
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#27
I say add none...take away none...we don't even know what to do with the ones we got😂😂😂

Each day I find hidden meaning in scripture I've read for 30 yrs. I've concluded that the bible its self is about a eternal God infinite in his ways. Therefore his word is the same eternal and infinite.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#28
FYI, the word is "canon", a body of literature.

A "cannon" is a big gun that uses explosives to shoot a projectile.

;)
can·on1
/ˈkanən/
See definitions in:
All

Religion

Literature

Music
noun

  1. 1.
    a general law, rule, principle, or criterion by which something is judged.
    "the appointment violated the canons of fair play and equal opportunity"

    Similar:
    principle


    rule


    law


    tenet


    precept


    formula


    standard


    convention


    norm


    pattern


    model


    exemplar


    criterion


    measure


    yardstick


    benchmark


    test
























  2. 2.
    a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine.
    "the formation of the biblical canon"
















































Did I use the wrong word or mistype it?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,289
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#30
The canon has already been tampered with. The book of Enoch was considered scripture for hundreds of years, it is referred to in the new testament and there are four fragments of it found in the dead sea scrolls.

If it is not scripture we do not know very much about demons, why the flood, or angels.
the reason why the book of Enoch did not make the cut is that Jude who is an eyewitness of the Lord and Genesis that Moses wrote came directly from the Holy Spirit God himself.

From Genesis to Revelation there is a thin RED thread that is Christ. HE is the standard but which ALL Scriptures MUST be built on and have.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#32
the reason why the book of Enoch did not make the cut is that Jude who is an eyewitness of the Lord and Genesis that Moses wrote came directly from the Holy Spirit God himself.

From Genesis to Revelation there is a thin RED thread that is Christ. HE is the standard but which ALL Scriptures MUST be built on and have.
Huh? God did not dictate the books of the bible. That is what satan does. The Koran, New Ager writings, automatic writing and Book of Mormon are good examples of how satan works.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,289
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#33
Huh? God did not dictate the books of the bible. That is what satan does. The Koran, New Ager writings, automatic writing and Book of Mormon are good examples of how satan works.
God did not Dictate the books of the Bible He Authored them. God used man to write HIS word.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#34
God did not Dictate the books of the Bible He Authored them. God used man to write HIS word.
friend my understanding is humans were the authors. God inspired those men.

  1. Romans 1:1
    Greetings from Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle and gave me the work of telling his Good News.
    1 Corinthians 1:1
  2. Greetings from Paul. I was chosen to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. God chose me because that is what he wanted. Greetings also
    2 Corinthians 1:1
  3. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because that is what God wanted. Greetings also from Timothy our Galatians 1:1
  4. Greetings from Paul, an apostle. I was chosen to be an apostle, but not by any group or person here on earth. My authority came from Ephesians 1:1
  5. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because that is what God wanted. To God’s holy people living in
    Philippians 1:1
  6. Greetings from Paul and Timothy, servants of Jesus Christ. To all of you in Philippi who are God’s holy people in Christ Jesus, including Colossians 1:1
  7. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because that is what God wanted. Greetings also from Timothy, our 1 Thessalonians 1:1
  8. Greetings from Paul, Silas, and Timothy. To the church of those in Thessalonica, who are in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:1
  9. Greetings from Paul, Silas, and Timothy. To the church of those in Thessalonica, who are in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Timothy 1:1
  10. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle by the command of God our Savior and Christ Jesus our hope.
    2 Timothy 1:1
  11. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because God wanted me to be. God sent me to tell people about the Titus 1:1
  12. Greetings from Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I was sent to help God’s chosen people have faith and Philemon 1:1
  13. Greetings from Paul, a prisoner for Jesus Christ, and from Timothy, our brother. To Philemon, our dear friend and worker with us.

  14. 1 Peter 1:1
    Greetings from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. To God’s chosen people who are away from their homes—people scattered all over
  15. Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. James 1:1
  16. Greetings from James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ. To God’s people who are scattered all over the world.
  17. Jude 1:1
    Greetings from Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James. To those who have been chosen and are loved by God the
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,289
4,040
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#35
friend my understanding is humans were the authors. God inspired those men.

  1. Romans 1:1
    Greetings from Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle and gave me the work of telling his Good News.
    1 Corinthians 1:1
  2. Greetings from Paul. I was chosen to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. God chose me because that is what he wanted. Greetings also
    2 Corinthians 1:1
  3. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because that is what God wanted. Greetings also from Timothy our Galatians 1:1
  4. Greetings from Paul, an apostle. I was chosen to be an apostle, but not by any group or person here on earth. My authority came from Ephesians 1:1
  5. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because that is what God wanted. To God’s holy people living in
    Philippians 1:1
  6. Greetings from Paul and Timothy, servants of Jesus Christ. To all of you in Philippi who are God’s holy people in Christ Jesus, including Colossians 1:1
  7. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because that is what God wanted. Greetings also from Timothy, our 1 Thessalonians 1:1
  8. Greetings from Paul, Silas, and Timothy. To the church of those in Thessalonica, who are in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:1
  9. Greetings from Paul, Silas, and Timothy. To the church of those in Thessalonica, who are in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Timothy 1:1
  10. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle by the command of God our Savior and Christ Jesus our hope.
    2 Timothy 1:1
  11. Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because God wanted me to be. God sent me to tell people about the Titus 1:1
  12. Greetings from Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I was sent to help God’s chosen people have faith and Philemon 1:1
  13. Greetings from Paul, a prisoner for Jesus Christ, and from Timothy, our brother. To Philemon, our dear friend and worker with us.

  14. 1 Peter 1:1
    Greetings from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. To God’s chosen people who are away from their homes—people scattered all over
  15. Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. James 1:1
  16. Greetings from James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ. To God’s people who are scattered all over the world.
  17. Jude 1:1
    Greetings from Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James. To those who have been chosen and are loved by God the
No that is not correct 2Peter 1:20-21

20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


IF man authored the word of God then it is of the flesh not of the Spirit Prophecy is not of men but of God or it is not Prophecy.

Not one of the verses you are using says They authored the word of God

Jesus Himself said in John 12:39

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.