Obedient Woman

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Aidan1

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
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705
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#21
Sadly, from my own experience, men see that as a reason to see women as inferior and to be abused.
You are right, but this is not how Jesus want that husbands should treat their wifes.
That is in one side misuesing the word of God. And on the other side the consequence of Evas sin. Genesis 3
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,729
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#22
Something I notice on forums like these is that I never see Christian men arguing that they do not have to love their wives as Christ loved the church, or try to explain it away.. say means something else... or that it does not apply today. But usually someone will do that with the wives submit to your husbands part.

I also don't see men saying, "I am doing perfectly at loving my wife like Christ loves the church." Occasionally, a wife will say she submits to her husband. The bar for husbands is way high. Many of us are willing not to evaluate our performance publicly and let God judge.
um yeah I was just responding tonthe ops question whether it was a one way thing which it isn’t it’s mutual
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
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#23
For me, Genesis 3:16 is key.
In what way is Genesis 3:16 "key" for you?

It is a statement of certain consequence. Many people read it as a command, but that doesn't fit the context or the statement itself. God did not "command" Adam to eat of the sweat of his brow and or to fight thorns and thistles for his crops; He stated that is what would certainly happen as a result of sin. Similarly, as a result of sin, women would have greater pain in childbirth and men would rule over them. There isn't a single (other) place in Scripture where a command is given to someone other than the person whose action is constrained by the command. If God wanted husbands/men to rule over wives/women, He would have told Adam to rule over her. He didn't.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,729
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#24
In what way is Genesis 3:16 "key" for you?

It is a statement of certain consequence. Many people read it as a command, but that doesn't fit the context or the statement itself. God did not "command" Adam to eat of the sweat of his brow and or to fight thorns and thistles for his crops; He stated that is what would certainly happen as a result of sin. Similarly, as a result of sin, women would have greater pain in childbirth and men would rule over them. There isn't a single (other) place in Scripture where a command is given to someone other than the person whose action is constrained by the command. If God wanted husbands/men to rule over wives/women, He would have told Adam to rule over her. He didn't.
it’s a result of the curse of sin he warned them first then they transgressed and thre curse resulted as he warned

it’s the same thing with Israel’s covenant he warned them first they transgressed and the curses he promised resulted from thier sin

Christ is taking mankind back to a place without sin or It’s curse where a man and his wife are one
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#25
it’s a result of the curse of sin he warned them first then they transgressed and thre curse resulted as he warned

it’s the same thing with Israel’s covenant he warned them first they transgressed and the curses he promised resulted from thier sin

Christ is taking mankind back to a place without sin or It’s curse where a man and his wife are one
Exactly. The original plan for a marriage had no need for either one to "rule over" the other. Rather, they are to use their different strengths to serve each other.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,729
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#26
Exactly. The original plan for a marriage had no need for either one to "rule over" the other. Rather, they are to use their different strengths to serve each other.
amen for sure a godly design where he rules the heart and we love one another
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#27
...or is there a burden on the male also to not be overbearing and mean?
That goes without saying. But that does not mean that men do not abuse their authority. Only men who are obedient to Christ will do what is right.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,696
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#28
I see obedience demanded in a woman throughout the Bible. It is in the Qur'an Surah 4:34. Do these works call for absolute obedience, or is there a burden on the male also to not be overbearing and mean?
Yes. Jesus himself was persecuted because he treated women with respect and kindness and love. We must all, women and men alike, learn submission to God and seek to become more like Jesus every day. God bless.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
493
217
43
PDX
#29
You are right, but this is not how Jesus want that husbands should treat their wifes.
That is in one side misuesing the word of God. And on the other side the consequence of Evas sin. Genesis 3
Sadly cruel smirk about women is well into human culture.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
11,729
4,775
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#30
Yes. Jesus himself was persecuted because he treated women with respect and kindness and love. We must all, women and men alike, learn submission to God and seek to become more like Jesus every day. God bless.
amen totally agree and found that well said . they were also some of his most loyal disciples and Mary was the first sent by Jesus to preach of his resurrection and ascension to the throne

I don’t think our gender makes any difference to God since Christ came to teach us the truth.

“Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s really the first bit of revelation sent by Jesus to his disciples
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,132
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cfbac.org
#31
.
Eph 5:22 . .Wives, submit to your husbands as to The Lord.

"as to the Lord" probably means that women ought to revere their husbands
with the same degree of courtesy, civility, and respect that they would give
Christ were he their spouse.

The Greek word for "submit" in this verse is the very same for submit in Eph
5:21, and never means that wives take orders from their husbands as if
marriage were a totalitarian arrangement.

What we're talking about here is deference rather than obedience. An
attitude of deference is mandatory for Christians on both sides of the gender
aisle-- both men and women.

Deference is agreeable, approachable, tactful, and diplomatic. Deference
isn't confrontational, demanding, assertive, militant, dominating, nor always
clamoring "I am woman! Hear me roar!"

In a nutshell: deference is just the opposite of rivaly. Christian women
striving for equality with men have not yet learned with it means to
submit to a husband as they would to Christ.
_
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
837
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#32
Where does one find obedient women? I'm disappointed this isn't an advertisement.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,132
953
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cfbac.org
#33
.
1Pet 3:7b . . Give honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,

The Greek word for "honor" is time (tee-may') which means: a value, i.e.
money paid.

The word for "weaker" is asthenes (as-then-ace') which means: having no
strength, i.e. fragile.

And the word for "vessel" is skeuos (skyoo'-os) which can indicate anything
from a soup bowl to a cardboard box; in other words: a container.

Peter isn't saying women are physically weaker than men; but that Christian
husbands should exercise the same care with their wives as they would a
fragile antique worth thousands of dollars like, say, a Ming vase. Nobody in
their right mind handles a Ming vase like a farmer handles a 5-gallon bucket.
Not that some women couldn't take that kind of handling; it's just that its
unbecoming for a Christian man to lack sensitivity for his wife's feelings.

This particular assessed value isn't an intrinsic value, nor is it a deserved
value either; but rather, it's a gratuitous value. In other words: Christ
commands Christian husbands to categorize their wives up there with
Dresden china even if she's as tough as a female cop and/or a UFC mixed
martial artist the likes of Rhonda Rousey-- and this is not a choice; no, it's
not a choice; it's an order.

Christian husbands who treat their Skil saws and their tomato plants with
more care and concern than they treat their wives can just forget about
associating with God on any meaningful level.
_
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
493
217
43
PDX
#34
.
Eph 5:22 . .Wives, submit to your husbands as to The Lord.

"as to the Lord" probably means that women ought to revere their husbands
with the same degree of courtesy, civility, and respect that they would give
Christ were he their spouse.


The Greek word for "submit" in this verse is the very same for submit in Eph
5:21, and never means that wives take orders from their husbands as if
marriage were a totalitarian arrangement.


What we're talking about here is deference rather than obedience. An
attitude of deference is mandatory for Christians on both sides of the gender
aisle-- both men and women.


Deference is agreeable, approachable, tactful, and diplomatic. Deference
isn't confrontational, demanding, assertive, militant, dominating, nor always
clamoring "I am woman! Hear me roar!"


In a nutshell: deference is just the opposite of rivaly. Christian women
striving for equality with men have not yet learned with it means to
submit to a husband as they would to Christ.
_
LOL, good luck with finding a woman that will give up her right to challenge you when she does not agree. :)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,095
6,479
113
#36
I think it should be pointed out that this whole thing about women's submission is referring to Spiritual matters. The husband is to be the Spiritual/Christian leader of the family...............It does not truly refer to physical. I know this because in Biblical days, women often were the money earners, property owners, and were responsible for seeing that the physical aspects of the family ran smoothly.

One might ALSO REMEMBER it was the WOMEN who provided the financial support for the Ministry of Jesus!
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,132
953
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#37
.
Eph 5:23-24 . . For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the
head of the church, his body, of which he is the savior. Now as the church
submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in
everything.

Christians, no less, have tried to circumvent that requirement by quoting
Paul to refute Paul; for example Gal 3:26-28

But if we were to make Gal 3:26-28 a rule in family affairs; then Christian
marriages would be same-sex unions; and that, to say the least, is quite
unacceptable.

Though both husband and wife are equals as believers, and equally Christ's
subjects, they are definitely not equals as man and wife though they be one
flesh; just as Christ and his Father are not equals though they be one God.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,132
953
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#38
.
Posts 31, 33, and 37 are exclusive. In other words: they do not discuss
rules of conduct for just any John Doe and/or Jack and Jill who happens to
be passing by and looking in. I meant those posts for committed Christians
rather than run of the mill pew warmers and/or the world at large.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#39
What makes you think that the people commenting on this thread are anything other than “committed Christians”?