Doctrine of Unconditional Election

Thats not what I asked my friend. So no you did not answer my question. You skirted it and went around it without answering my direct question

1. I never said it was a good thing, I asked how my having faith in someone else doing ALL the work in saving me could cause me to boast.
2. I mention boasting because it is what Paul says hose who work to earn salvation can do (boast or take credit)

eph 2. Not of works LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST

rom 4. If abraham was found by works, HE HAS SOMETHING TO BOAST ABOUT

Boasting is taking credit. Boasting is pointing attention to you. The jews boasted because they claimed they saved themselves by their works.

Paul said we are saved by GRAVE THROUGH FAITH. Not of works.

once again, How did the tax collector save himself by getting on his knees and calling out to God? How is my faith in someone else considered a work, where I can boast?

Unbelief is sin.

Therefore, the sin debt is paid only for believers.

This begs a question. Who is doing your thinking for you?

Actually, it's hard to understand how you would think that absurdity.

When a person "recognizes Chrit as Savior", they absolutely DO "believe He is the One who saves".

Hold on. No one is born believing in Christ. So everyone has committed the sin of unbelief.

But Christ died for ALL sins. The Bible says so clearly.

What sends people to the lake of fire is not possessing eternal life. Rev 20:15. Just that.

You don't know what Atonement is?

How can someone be reconciled to God but not Righteous before Him? It is not possible. There are so many terms you just misunderstand badly.

What do you think reconciliation is???

Your lack of understanding of everything biblical is astounding.


Christ DID die for all sin. But you have to come to Him and ask for His Forgiveness before you can be given this Gift.

Its not automatically applied to all people.

Only believers.

i just knew even as a kid. No one is born believing in Christ I knew god was

All manner of sin will be forgiven all men

Since it has been the HS job to convict the world, to give us the word, (all scripture is God breathed) and work miracles through the prophets and Christ himself. to not believe what God has given and to give credit to someone other than God (like sadly many churches do) is to go against the HS.

This is called blasphemy of the spirit. and this sin will never be forgiven

Remember those who nailed Jesus to the cross. He said forgive them
Those who he healed. As he said it was the same as forgiving sin (since sickness and disease is the result of sin)

No one will be condemned because they commited adultry.

They are condemned because they did not believe

He who believes is not condemned

He who does nt believe is condemned already.

I agree with you there. I opened the window to read to whom you are referring. It appears to be a very confused exegesis on their part.
"Well yeah. He was faithful up to the cross. "
Up to the cross? What does that mean? Up to. Not while nailed to? After the cross? What?

Maybe they'll reword their remarks so we can better understand.

Good luck brother

Sadly, This user is past understanding. She still has not answered BIBLICAL questions I have asked her.

But she sure does not mind coming at me when she feels like it

Don;t expect me to answer your questions until you answer the ones I asked way back when.

"not a post-salvation topic Fellowship is attained once saved. " What?

The topic of this thread is very clear at the top of any page in this thread. Upper case font so that you can't miss it. DOCTRINE OF UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
https://christianchat.com/threads/doctrine-of-unconditional-election.200944/post-4633531
Aug 25, 2021
#1



Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Click to expand...
Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:
I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !
[End of 1st post paste]

Where in there is anything said about "a post-salvation topic Fellowship is attained once saved." ?

Nothing in my posts in this thread have ever referred to that. If you imagine so, you are referring then to the wrong member. Perhaps use those keywords to search the thread for the correct person to address your remarks to.

I didn't ask you a question.
And you are false! I answered the questions repeatedly. You are either unable to comprehend the answers, or think to pursue a false charge to avoid continuing the discussion because your tactics do not intimidate people away from speaking the truth as scripture relates. It would be absurd to continue to respond again and again to someone incapable of accepting the answer they really don't want to read in the first place. Hence, ignoring the bait.

Either way, I read you to understand Roger's remarks. And you are right. I am long past your ability to understand. You don't understand. You abrogate the scriptures at your peril in order to mislead conversations and readers on every forum you join. And then you resort to personal attacks and insulting innuendo thinking those reiterate your point. And they do. That's why you don't fool Bible reading OSAS (Once Sealed Always Sealed - TY BE) Christians.
And God see's you!

You're going to be when someone laughs at your pointed observations there. You know this, right?

Maam You mocked me with that post. I understood that post quite fine thank you. You need to stop coming in here and telling people what they do or do not do. Your NOT GOD.

The only discussion going on is HIM continually saying I am telling him something I HAVE NEVER SAID

So are you a hypocrite here. Your going to judge me, for doing what he is doing?

And by the way, You just completely destroyed your own argument

I BELIEVE IN OSAS, ASK ANYONE HERE!!

So of course I do not fool OSAS people I AM ONE

Instead of running from me because you do not like me calling you out. Why don;t you stick around. Maybe just maybe you might understand what I believe

What a joke!

There you have it folks.

I do not believe in eternal security!!

Only God calls and gifts through his grace Salvation and belief. And he predestined this before he created the world.

Jesus took the sins of the world! An endless list of sins of the world abound. Lust, envy, greed, murder, hate, theft, adultery, etc....

It doesn't say Jesus took the sins of every sinner in the world upon himself on the cross. Because every single scripture, including John 3:16, is delivered in the context of God having predestined whom he would save before the foundation of the world. And every scripture that relates to reiterating that tells us, what Jesus himself said. No one comes to him unless the father draws them.
And being the father draws us, no one can take us from Jesus hand. All that the father gives him, he will not lose one.
John 6:37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Context!
Romans 9:11 Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls.
Ephesians 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
We don't choose to believe. Why? God tells us. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.



Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
...:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Ephesians 1:4 Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

What is fascinating? I NEVER said in my post you refer to that you don't believe in OSAS.
It isn't there. Anyone can read my post and see that.

But you react. Twice!
Fascinating.

Twice!
Fascinating.

BTW, present tense? "Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself. "
Those redeemed in Christ are not wretched souls.