THE RAPTURE/END OF DAYS

Hello!
G1680 ἐλπίς elpis (el-piys') n.
1. (properly) expectation (not from presumption or forcefulness nor a feeling, but from a posture of trust having sound reason for the expectation).
2. (explicitly) The Expectation of Resurrection through Jesus (Messiah) unto Eternal Life and Glorification alongside Him.
3. (abstractly or concretely) confidence.
4. (by weakened analogy) an expectant hope (with anticipation).

not:
5. (improperly, by further weakening) merely a hope, a wishing for, a wanting (without reason of expectation).
6. (note) the modern English use of the word “hope” is a weakened context (a mere whisper) of what is meant by this biblical Greek word.

God Bless!

Well I hope that eternal torment is not a thing but on the off chance it is or at least if it is not eternal we should do our best to help others avoid that place. I never had the honor of going to heaven but I have been to hell and what I saw there I wouldn't wish on anyone especially not for eternity but there was one man I saw there who I had pity on and to this day hope God will have mercy on he was the only one there who knew he belonged there he accepted his fate and just took everything thrown at him.
I know one day God will make a new heaven and earth and I wonder if maybe he will make a new hell or perhaps just not send lost souls there to begin with but hell is real I have seen it with my own eyes my only hope is that it is not eternal

"4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new!--Revelations 21:4-5

All tears wiped away, no more death, anymore pain--ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW!

The new heavens and new earth--have no sorrow, no pain, no death--anywhere!

Another proof text making eternal torture impossible.

Blain--what you saw was a dream, vision, or hallucination--it can't be real even though I know these things can seem very real when you experience them. Four times the bible says the lake of IS the second death. Notice that both Hell and Death are thrown into it so it has to be symbolic since they are not matter, therefore cannot burn. Also hell can't be thrown into hell. Also, even if you believed it were a literal place, no one would go there UNTIL Christ's Second Coming and subsequent Judgment of both the believer and unbeliever. The lake of fire symbolizes DESTRUCTION.

"Revelation 20:12, NIV: "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.""--Revelation 20:12

Yes some is symbolic and some is not but there is plenty of scripture that shows hell is indeed a real place for instance
Mark 9:47-48

If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

there are many more but most of them involve fire suffering and torment When I went there I can attest to how hot it was there my shirt was glued to my skin I saw people being thrown into the lake of fire and no one could die either it was seemingly neverending.
I cannot even begin to explain how thirsty I was how just one drop of water would be like heaven and I don't know why he showed me all that he but hell resides in the spiritual realm a place I have only visited a few times it doesn't abide by our rules in this existance you don't require a physical body to burn you have a spiritual body whether you go to heaven or hell.
To say it is not eternal is one thing but to deny it's existance would be the same as knowing God exists but not the devil

Of course if we end up agreeing to disagree that is fine. I will say one thing about the spiritual realm though every time I went there it was always through a door and in the spiritual realm and perhaps the most fascinating thing about it is that unlike here where thoughts or doubt or influence from the enemy or from anyone else you think and act solely based on what is in your heart it is more pure more concrete you find your faith is much stronger than you thought it was you find your heart is more pure than you might have believed you wear your heart on your sleeves there.

As far as hell goes like I said we can agree to disagree but if God is real so is the devil if heaven is real likewise hell would be too at least in my understanding honestly I am much more interested in the things of heaven

The blessed hope as I understand it is the second coming of Christ and our glorification at that coming.
The only person robbing you is Satan. The Bible teaches that there will be a falling away before Christs return. I pray that you and others who are deceived wont be among them who fall away when the Antichrist arrives and you realise that you have been fed with his lies.

Precious friend, thanks for your understanding. Mine is from prayerful/careful
study of God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, for 18 months, ending in a 17-part
study - here is the Conclusion - be Encouraged And Edified, In HIS Word!:

Updated version with armies leaving HEAVEN, and
an army, * arriving on earth!:
Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With
The Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army, * “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares First, And they are taken Out of the kingdom”
to be cast into the furnace of fire! (Matthew 24:30, 13:30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

to be continued...Part II

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
Part II

God's Prophetic Program, and second earthly coming

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?
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LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Blessed, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑
God's Simple Will!
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No, Precious friend, not "satan's lies," but fed with God's Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

I hope you will prayer and study the matter further blain. The literal verses that say death and destruction is the punishment for sin vastly outnumber the figurative ones, such as the ones you mentioned. And it is central to the gospel message that Christ paid the penalty of sin for us. If you believe eternal conscious torment is the penalty and not death, that means Jesus is or will be in eternal conscious as well. True believers lnow this to be false. Ps again impossible to enter hell since judgment is at Christs second coming— not before then.

Every camp agrees with that.
so you called the brethren and the bible satan for nothing

I will do some studying on it and see if God changes my view I can't make any promises but one must always leave room to be wrong in order to learn

This is ludicrous. You do not even understand that when Christ died on the cross He endured both the first and the second deaths. That is why no Christian will ever face the second death. The total penalty for sins was paid in full.

He did not suffer the second death because that is to die in the lake of fire.

'You do not even understand that when Christ died on the cross He endured both the first and the second deaths."

You believe Christ faced the great white throne judgement, was not found in the Book of Life, and was then cast into the lake of fire to experience the second death?

Revelation 20:11
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:14-15
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Oh my goodness Nehemiah--that is my point exactly! If a person believes ECT is the penalty, that would then mean Christ would have to pay THAT as the penalty and not death--this is why ECT is ABSOLUTELY FALSE!

And it is preposterous to say Jesus died the SECOND DEATH--it is BLASPHEMY to say such a thing! No true Christian would dare say such a thing. The second death (annihilation) is ONLY for the wicked, along with Satan and His angels

"For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God." Romans 6:9-10

Truly? < first time for me to use the angry face
Revelation 20:14-15
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Who suffers the Second death? whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Yes, I'm a bit speechless too. I hope he misspoke. Anyway, there's also this verse, too.

Revelation 21:8
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I am really baffled by this comment. When did I call the Bible or the brethren Satan? My remarks are aimed at the interpretation given and believed by those who are deceived. The idea that ''Every camp
agrees'' that the blessed hope is the second coming and glorification of the saints is inaccurate if
it was there would not be a debate about it. The blessed hope for them is that the 'seventh cavalry'
will come and zap them all away before things get really nasty.

According to the Pre trib teaching there are not two comings of Christ but three. Another invisible
coming is slipped in between the two There is not one body of Christ but two. One is zapped up
during this supposed invisible coming the other stays on the earth during the great tribulation. The
second class body left behind suffer martyrdom and all the other horrors. Jewish believers however somehow escape persecution and are free to roam around the world evangelizing instead of being zapped away with the rest of the special privileged crowd. Although some in Jerusalem are told to take to the hills. If anyone wants to believe all this they are free to do so at the moment.