How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

Behold the discombobulated DaveTree Special. I love you, Dave. I really do.

PAY ATTENTION to this dialogue: Gospel of John ch3
[...]
10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?

It is a pre-pre trib conditioning process leading up to the great tribulation. (yes...i meant pre-pre trib).

And you thought i was the one way off the charts..........

pre-trib is a cascade of lies

It all AGREES Yes, OF COURSE God agrees with Himself! But the gathering in Matthew 24 cannot be Paul's gathering. The signs in the sun and moon in Matthew 24 CANNOT BE the signs at the 6th seal. These are DIFFERENT events separated by over 7 years. They are separated by all the events from Revelation chapter 7 to chapter 18.

Read verses 6 through 8: I have bolded them for you. They are very clear: a POWER is restraining the Beast to prevent his revealing before the proper time. But when the time comes, that restraining power will be taken out of the way. Do you agree so far?

Now look at the last two words of verse 3: I bolded them too for your convenience. Notice that suddenly Paul wrote that the man of sin IS REVEALED. Yet, Paul has told us that he COULD NOT be revealed until the power restraining him had been taken out of the way.

How can we solve this dilemma? It must be that in verse 3a, that power restraining him was "taken out of the way."

Read these early translations - before the KJV.

1384 Wycliffe N.T. That no man deceyue you in any maner / for no but departynge aweye (or dissencon) schal come firste & the man of synne schall be schewid [shewed] the sone of perdicioune.

1534 Tyndale N.T. Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

1535 Coverdale Bible Let no man disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the departynge come first, and that Man of Synne be opened, even the sonne of perdicion.

1539 Cranmer Great Bible Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for the Lorde shall not come excepte there come a departinge fyrst, & that that synfull man be opened, the sonne of perdicion.

1549 Matthew's Bible Let no man deceyue you by any meanes, for the Lord commeth not, except there come a departyng first, and that, that sinful man be opened, the sonne of perdicyon

1565 Beza Bible Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for [that day shall not come,] except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, [euen] the son of perdition.

1575 Geneva Bible Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition.

Notice that every one translated "apostasia" as a or the departing.

Did you ever look up apostasia to see what it could mean?

What does Strong’s Concordance tell us about this Greek word, “apostasia?” First, it is a compound word made up of two Greek words, “apo” and “stasia.” We get our English word “stationary” from the Greek second half of this apostasia; stationary as in not moving. For the first word, Apo, Strong’s has this:

I. of separation…
..A. of local separation,
..B. of separation of a part from the whole
......i. where of a whole some part is taken
...C. of any kind of separation of one thing from another…
...D. of a state of separation, that is of distance
......i. physical, of distance of place
......ii temporal, of distance of time

II. Of origin
...A. of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
...B. of origin of a cause (Emphasis added.)

At the rapture, will some part of the entire population be taken? The answer is yes.
Will those taken be separated by distance? Again the answer is yes.

The other part of the compound word, 'stasia," is where we get "stationary" or "not moving" from.

Putting these two words together again as a compound word, “apo-stasia” can certainly mean a part of a whole group suddenly moved from where they were to a new location, and it happens so fast, the rest of the whole group seems stationary - not moving.

I am glad you brought this passage up. Many believe it teaches a posttrib rapture. Only a beginning student would think that. It takes study to determine Paul's meaning. The key is when one sees "is revealed."

The Times of the Gentiles is NOT a falsely derived "Gentile Church" - satans religious lie

The lying must stop already - pre-trib, Gentile church, more then one Second Coming, more then one FIRST Resurrection and so on.

You are the one arguing and twisting the words of the LORD and the Apostles without any concern whatsoever.

Read all of Gospel of John, ACTS, ROMANS, GALATIANS, COLOSSIANS

"They are not all Israel who are of Israel" The Mother of us all is Jerusalem from Above, who is FREE with HER CHildren - SHE is Above and not in the flesh, on earth, in physical Israel who is in BONDAGE to SIN and the coming Judgment.

There is One Bride/Body of Christ - Jew and Gentile

The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

Whoever seeks to separate Jew from Gentile in CHRIST, assaults the Word of God.

Consider this and set yourself Free - No lie is of the Truth - Apostle John

Can you make a sentence without "lie" in it?

You have not made any case at all suggesting "lies" by anyone.

But I know the drill. Tactics over substance as you prove with every post

Rev 14
That alone destroys your doctrine
Big time.

satan twists and reverses the order of Scripture - dear Brother you did this same sin in placing the rapture first

Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately AFTER the Tribulation..............His Second Coming on the clouds.


1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
v13 Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
v14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

God's Irreversible Order established in Scripture

1.) Tribulation, Persecution, Death for many who choose Eternal Life
2.) His Second Coming
3.) First Resurrection of the dead in Christ
4.) remaining Saints gathered/raptured
5.) Wrath of the Lamb poured out

Whoever seeks to reverse this Order of Scripture foretold by the Prophets, the LORD and the Apostles are in ignorance and SIN.

I hate to say this but that is just plain stupid.

To ascribe sin to anyone that disagrees with you it's just plain laughable. Oh the irony of you getting it backwards , and actually promoting it as if it is true, while defying clear verses in the Bible, then frame us bereans that take in stuff you omit as sinners and ignorant.

All rapture verses are peacetime and life as normal setting.

That formula you declared is absent in every rapture verse.
The Bible says "all take the mark" DURING THE TRIB.
The Bible says the antichrist overcomes the church .
The Bible says power was given to the Antichrist to overcome the church during the tribulation .
Furthermore, the innumerable number in heaven ,which are taken from Earth , DURING THE TRIB, that have died,are so many, and in the billions, that they can't even be counted, adds to the fact that there is no church on Earth to rapture post-trib.

You just touched on something.
Jesus said "pray that you be may be counted Worthy to escape the things about to come upon the Earth and stand before the son of God."

He would not have said that if there were not, like you say, a "conditioning".

The rapture is the groom Gathering the worthy bride. The worthy bride is taken .

it is not the Rapture of the entire church . nor is it a raising of the entire church that is dead and in the grave. Only those dead in Christ, and note that it says" in Christ, " that means they are in Christ, walking in Christ. they're not Pew sitters they're not nominal Christians, the dead in Christ are raised at the rapture.
Likewise those that are alive in Christ , not the foolish virgins, not the Pew sitters , not the 50/50 believers that have a ho-hum walk. The Rapture is the Gathering of the Bride. Only the bride is taken in the rapture. the other believers that are left behind face the Antichrist and most of them are beheaded because they refused the mark.
The rapture is not at the end of the Trib . that disrupts everything about it . Let's face it , there's no groom that's a warrior coming for his Warrior bride, and then with no wedding chamber , going into a battle. There's is no such thing.

This is the most twisted and stupid view I have ever read.
Just dumb!!!

Did you never read?

Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

WHO is He going to appear in His second coming to? ONLY to those who are looking for Him, EXPECTING Him.

I wonder, are YOU expecting Him tonight? If He came tonight, would His coming catch you by surprise?
He is correct: There is MUCH of the church around the world - people who call themselves "Christian" who have never been "born again." They are not qualified for the rapture for they are not "In Christ." This is not a "twist," it is TRUTH. I am amazed you don't recognize it as truth.

Your sin is violating the Eternal Commandment - Deut 4:1-2 , Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19

Following God requires we believe His words (Noah, Daniel, Job) and fear Him so that the Tempter has no place in our hearts to twist, deny or add to God's words.
Idolatry requires a twist here and a twist there to establish itself in men's hearts = the Babylonian Way.

The Scripture does not belong to us - it is OFF LIMITS to our correction and interpretation.

For we did not follow cleverly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

We also have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.

For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

You are the on who does not understand.
If you are not born again you are not saved, not a saint, not a child of God, not a Christian.

Revelation 14 shows the symbolic Bride of Christ = 144k who have not been rapture as Revelation chapters 1 - 13 declare.

Revelation 14:12-13 Says:
Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

#1 - never spoken by the LORD, the Prophets the Apostles
#2 - twists Scripture to stay relevant = 2 Thess 2:1-3
#3 - commits the vile sin of devaluing the Blood of Christ and the Gospel with establishing the lie of 'tribulation saints' are somehow unworthy of a false pre-trib rapture that cannot be found in scripture
#4 - commits another fragrant lie = His Saints are 'Left Behind' by the Lord
#5 - separates Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ
#6 - produces a diluted perverse gospel that prevents the effective preparation(Noah) of mens hearts for what is coming

I finally understand: you don't know the difference between good exegesis and "twist." For the 2 Thes. 2 passage:
Can you explain to us why Paul wrote, "and now you know...? I wonder, do YOU know?
Can you explain why Paul wrote in 3b IS revealed?
Can you describe the parallelism in this passage?
I wonder: can you explain this passage to those of us who "twist" it? Who knows? Perhaps we can learn. What is Paul really teaching?

As for being "left behind:" We did not write 1 Thes. Paul did. We did not write Hebrews: Paul did.
I did not separate Jew from Gentile: Paul did.

Just so you know, WE KNOW what is coming: Jesus is coming for His bride. Those who EXPECT Him will see Him.

More beginner stuff! Did you not READ? The 144,000 are descendants of JACOB: JEWS and from all the tribes. No wonder we seldom agree.

For the last 2000 years and up to the rapture, God has had believers in Christ as His witnesses. But at the pretrib rapture, which will happen just before the 6th seal in Rev. 6, suddenly His witnesses will be raptured to heaven. It is then NO MISTAKE in scripture that in Rev. 7 God seals 144,000 of Israel as His witnesses. No, it does not say that. But it did not need to be said. They are the firstfruits of Israel. They will be His witnesses up until the midpoint of the week when they too will be caught up to heaven. No, it does not say that either, but the next time John saw them, they were in heaven. HOW did they get there? John and God leaves that up to us to figure out.

AT the midpoint of the week, (actually 3.5 days before) the Two Witnesses show up, and they will be His Witnesses for the last half of the 70th week.

I wonder if you know when the Old Testament saints are caught up?

You said: "To be a true Christian one must be "born again" and that experience was not available or possible before Christ rose from the dead."

The New Birth was always made available to God's People - Deuteronomy 30:6
And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

PAY ATTENTION to this dialogue: Gospel of John ch3

Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”

3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a”

4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”

5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?