If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

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Yahshua

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Sep 22, 2013
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Is the Judgment by JESUS to end Jerusalem tell us that He is Reigning over The House of Jacob from Mount Zion (GOD'S Kingdom) as a King (Luke 19:41-44)? "and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

If the Reborn are Kingdom Ambassadors, why are we waiting for a physical Kingdom like the Jews are? They are waiting for a Messianic Age, are we also or is LORD JESUS CHRIST Reigning right now?

The following was the last part of Daniel's interpretation of Neb's dream (of the statue), given to him by Almighty.


Daniel 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.



Daniel 2:44
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.


We're told that in the days of the last kingdoms the stone (that the builder's rejected; Messiah) will descend and crush the kingdoms and establish His kingdom forever. So the kingdom of Almighty is to be established on earth with the submission of the kingdoms of man.


Revelation 11:5
Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”


So the Messiah's kingdom isn't here yet.


Luke 19:11-12
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.



The Messiah went away to receive His kingdom; to "prepare a place"...until then, He sits on His Father's throne. His Father's throne is in heaven, while His throne is the throne of David on earth.


Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


Until then, the Almighty has left this world to its own vanity and consequences until His children (co-heirs with Messiah) are manifested.


Romans 8:18-21
I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.


It's the children of Almighty who will set the world free. This is what the millennium is for; growing that stone in Daniel 2 into a mountain


Romans 8:22-25
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.


This is why they (we who believe) were saved, to rule with Messiah when His kingdom comes.


Matthew 6:10
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
 

iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
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The word "air" is "aer' which refers to the lower atmosphere. It is from 6000 ft. down to earth. So at the rapture Christ will come to at least 6000 ft. from earth to meet the saints at the resurrection. Paul says nothing about Christ touching down on earth, which would be referring to the Second Coming.
@Charlie24

What is it that happens in the twinkling of an eye in the verse below?

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52-57 (KJV)
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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@Charlie24

What is it that happens in the twinkling of an eye in the verse below?

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

- 1 Corinthians 15:52-57 (KJV)
It is the completed salvation of all the saints in history who have passed away and still alive on earth at that time.

Remember that Paul told us that in this life we only have a down-payment on our salvation, (the Holy Spirit) until our salvation is completed at the resurrection. Eph. 1:13-14
 

iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
436
471
63
It is the completed salvation of all the saints in history who have passed away and still alive on earth at that time.

Remember that Paul told us that in this life we only have a down-payment on our salvation, (the Holy Spirit) until our salvation is completed at the resurrection. Eph. 1:13-14
Charlie, in 1 Corinthians 15:52, we are changed into our spiritual bodies. This is the Second Coming of our Lord. This is the subject of this verse. Do you understand?
 

iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
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continued.…

This is the same subject here: (air—spiritual body)

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (KJV)
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
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The following was the last part of Daniel's interpretation of Neb's dream (of the statue), given to him by Almighty.


Daniel 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.


Daniel 2:44
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.


We're told that in the days of the last kingdoms the stone (that the builder's rejected; Messiah) will descend and crush the kingdoms and establish His kingdom forever. So the kingdom of Almighty is to be established on earth with the submission of the kingdoms of man.


Revelation 11:5
Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”


So the Messiah's kingdom isn't here yet.


Luke 19:11-12
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.


The Messiah went away to receive His kingdom; to "prepare a place"...until then, He sits on His Father's throne. His Father's throne is in heaven, while His throne is the throne of David on earth.


Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


Until then, the Almighty has left this world to its own vanity and consequences until His children (co-heirs with Messiah) are manifested.


Romans 8:18-21
I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.


It's the children of Almighty who will set the world free. This is what the millennium is for; growing that stone in Daniel 2 into a mountain


Romans 8:22-25
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.


This is why they (we who believe) were saved, to rule with Messiah when His kingdom comes.


Matthew 6:10
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Daniel is complete ...with the 70 weeks being over. GOD doesn't extend His Prophecy times.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Revelation 11:5
Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”

//JESUS is the Kingdom of The World right now. The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST. He hands It to His Father when He puts everything under His feet ...which already happened.

Does all flesh worship JESUS (Isa 66:23, John 17:2-5) if He filled all things (Ephesians 4:10) and has already put everything under His feet (Ephesians 1:22)?


Luke 13:6-9

He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.


Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?


And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:


And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

(Luke 19:41-44) "and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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Rev. 13:1

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

This is the anti-christ, he is a literal man.

When John saw the "whore who sits on many waters" the angel told John, "i will show you the mystery of the woman, and the ten horns which you saw on the beast!

Rev. 17:15-16

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

The "waters" that the whore sit on were "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The "sea" that the beast rose from are also "waters" of the same, people and nations. The beast is a literal man from the nations of people, the anti-christ.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
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Charlie, in 1 Corinthians 15:52, we are changed into our spiritual bodies. This is the Second Coming of our Lord. This is the subject of this verse. Do you understand?
Where does it say it's the Second Coming? Or is it that you assume it's the Second Coming?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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Matthew 6:10
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
You are making that future tense because you want it to be.


Sure sounds like we are in a Kingdom bearing fruit now.

Mat 21:43 -45

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

//We are the nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Revelation 22:2

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
706
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You do know that the vision & interpretation of Daniel 2 was YEARS prior to Daniel 9 right? They're two different prophecies.

Sure sounds like we are in a Kingdom bearing fruit now.

Mat 21:43 -45

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

//We are the nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Revelation 22:2

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
The nations are being healed today? Are you are preterist (believing all of Revelation has been fulfilled)?
 

iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
436
471
63
Rev. 13:1

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

This is the anti-christ, he is a literal man.

When John saw the "whore who sits on many waters" the angel told John, "i will show you the mystery of the woman, and the ten horns which you saw on the beast!

Rev. 17:15-16

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

The "waters" that the whore sit on were "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The "sea" that the beast rose from are also "waters" of the same, people and nations. The beast is a literal man from the nations of people, the anti-christ.
The reason I wanted you to give the scripture is so that you could see that the word “beast“ is singular. In your post #759, you said “beasts.” There is a big difference. Do you know why?
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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No assuming with me, @Charlie24

Do you not know that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ happens at the 7th Trump?
Do you not know that the trump of the rapture that Paul explains is not connected with the 7 trumps of Rev.?

Paul wanted the church to know what would happen. The seven trumps of Rev. were written long after Paul wrote of the rapture to the church. The church would have had no knowledge of the 7 trumps of Rev.

The Greek word "eschatos can mean either “last in point of time” or “last in point of sequence.”

This trump that Paul describes is not in "sequence" but is the "last in point of time."

That "last in point of time" is the signal of the end of the Church age and is not connected with the 7 trumps of Rev. which is in "sequence."
 
Jan 21, 2021
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You do know that the vision & interpretation of Daniel 2 was YEARS prior to Daniel 9 right? They're two different prophecies.



The nations are being healed today? Are you are preterist (believing all of Revelation has been fulfilled)?
i find it impossible to believe JESUS is going to allow a thousand years where people will get an unfair chance at SALVATION. That's not how this works. People would become automatically elected from the direct proof of GOD.
 

iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
436
471
63
Do you not know that the trump of the rapture that Paul explains is not connected with the 7 trumps of Rev.?

Paul wanted the church to know what would happen. The seven trumps of Rev. were written long after Paul wrote of the rapture to the church. The church would have had no knowledge of the 7 trumps of Rev.

The Greek word "eschatos can mean either “last in point of time” or “last in point of sequence.”

This trump that Paul describes is not in "sequence" but is the "last in point of time."

That "last in point of time" is the signal of the end of the Church age and is not connected with the 7 trumps of Rev. which is in "sequence."
Scriptures please.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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i find it impossible to believe JESUS is going to allow a thousand years where people will get an unfair chance at SALVATION. That's not how this works. People would become automatically elected from the direct proof of GOD.
Thousands upon thousands has God in the flesh standing before them performing miracles and feeding thousands with a handful of food, even raising the dead, and yet the overwhelming majority did not believe Him. What makes you think all will believe when Christ sits on His throne?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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Thousands upon thousands has God in the flesh standing before them performing miracles and feeding thousands with a handful of food, even raising the dead, and yet the overwhelming majority did not believe Him. What makes you think all will believe when Christ sits on His throne?
this has gotten sad that you really think people are that dumb

JESUS wasn't an obvious King before.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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63
this has gotten sad that you really think people are that dumb
How is it possible for Satan to be released from hell at the end of the 1000 years and gather multitudes of unbelievers to war against the saints, if they are not unbelievers to begin with?