When the priests showed Alexander(The Great) the prophecy of Daniel

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Dec 4, 2021
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#1
So I read that Alexander the great arrived at the gates of Jerusalem and the Jews did the right thing by opening the gates to him for the first time lol, after they had given him wine and bread, the priests read to him a prophecy which was written by Daniel that foretold how a goat from the West(King of Greece) would knock out the ram(Persian Empire), Alexander upon hearing this was glad but did he not appoint a viceroy over the Jews to run the province for him like he did with many of his other provinces and why does scripture mention the leaders of the other empires and leaves out Alexander, Alexander is expressed figuratively while the others have been mentioned by name:

King Nebuchadnezzar-Babylonian Empire
Cyrus The Great-Persian Empire
Goat from the West-Greco Empire
Augustus Caesar-Roman Empire


Are there any canonical sources that mention what Alexander did when the Jews surrendered, I would really love to know what happened.
And then the king of Greece does not serve any close role like Nebuchadnezzar throwing Daniel in the furnace and notices the Son of Man in there or Cyrus ordering the rebuilding of the temple and ending of the Babylonian exile of the Jews or Augustus Caesar ordering the counting of all people, Jesus involved. Why is Alexander not even mentioned anywhere in the following version "and when the king of Greece approached Jerusalem, the king and priests knowing this to be a fulfillment of prophecy, opened the gates to him and gave him bread and wine and read to him a prophecy by Daniel foretelling his military conquest." Is there any source that sites this?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#3
We know what happened when the Jews accepted Alexander instead of fighting him. It was carrying out an eternal principle of God---make friends and do good for your enemies.

The Jews had decided that war solved nothing, it was better for them to let God work out their problems in His own time. They made their peace with Alexander and became part of the Greek-Egyptian Empire.

The Greeks found that they admired the Jews and could accept the precepts of the Jewish God and that a friendship with them could be both pleasant and profitable. They asked of them only a modest tribute and asked that they establish banking in Egypt.

For 150 years, the Jews and Egyptian Greeks lived in peace, in a condition of mutual respect and benefit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,418
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#4
Are there any canonical sources that mention what Alexander did when the Jews surrendered, I would really love to know what happened.
Josephus is the only source for this, and according to him the Jews did NOT surrender to Alexander. Instead Alexander "surrendered" to the Jews (in a manner of speaking), and even made an offering in the temple. Then he promised that they could remain under their own laws. This could simply be a legend, since Plutarch -- who wrote about Alexander -- did not say anything about this visit to Jerusalem. The Jewish Encyclopedia calls it a "fantastical account" and says that many scholars do not accept it as historical.
 
Dec 4, 2021
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#5
We know what happened when the Jews accepted Alexander instead of fighting him. It was carrying out an eternal principle of God---make friends and do good for your enemies.

The Jews had decided that war solved nothing, it was better for them to let God work out their problems in His own time. They made their peace with Alexander and became part of the Greek-Egyptian Empire.

The Greeks found that they admired the Jews and could accept the precepts of the Jewish God and that a friendship with them could be both pleasant and profitable. They asked of them only a modest tribute and asked that they establish banking in Egypt.

For 150 years, the Jews and Egyptian Greeks lived in peace, in a condition of mutual respect and benefit.
When the Romans arrived at their gates centuries later, they were not so generous to them.
 
Dec 4, 2021
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#6
Josephus is the only source for this, and according to him the Jews did NOT surrender to Alexander. Instead Alexander "surrendered" to the Jews (in a manner of speaking), and even made an offering in the temple. Then he promised that they could remain under their own laws. This could simply be a legend, since Plutarch -- who wrote about Alexander -- did not say anything about this visit to Jerusalem. The Jewish Encyclopedia calls it a "fantastical account" and says that many scholars do not accept it as historical.
Why would Alexander surrender to the Jews when his army was overrunning every opposition that rose up against him, its true that is a fantastical account, Alexander had them, that is why they gave him wine and bread.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,418
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#7
Why would Alexander surrender to the Jews when his army was overrunning every opposition that rose up against him, its true that is a fantastical account, Alexander had them, that is why they gave him wine and bread.
"Fantastical" in this case means "fictitious". And Alexander "surrendered in a manner of speaking". Just read the account through the link in post #2.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
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#8
"Fantastical" in this case means "fictitious". And Alexander "surrendered in a manner of speaking". Just read the account through the link in post #2.

Josephus is the only ancient record of this event, the original sources that he and others used being lost. he is normally discounted by people talking about Alexander, usually on the basis that (1) no other account corroborates this, (2) it seems out of character for Alexander and (3) secular historians do not admit that Daniel was written before the time of Alexander.

(1) is the best argument, but it is weak. other sources of the history of Alexander contain things that are not corroborated, and each was written with their own purposes. Josephus isn't even writing about Alexander, but giving the history of the Jews.
(2) is spurious - it is entirely in keeping with what's known about Alexander's character to have embraced prophecy about himself and to have acted on dreams and to have visited Jerusalem while conquering the coastline on his way to Egypt. the military actions Josephus mentions leading up to his visit are all corroborated. Alexanders treatment of the Jews as reported by Josephus is also consistent with how he treated other peoples who did not resist him - allowing them freedom to practice their own religions and laws, granting clemency from general taxation so long as they obeyed the regional governors, and inviting them to join his army for reward.
(3) is probably the main reason secular historians reject Josephus' account -- because Daniel is a very powerful book, detailing in prophecy many things that later occured, it is often attacked and presumed to have a much later date. for the world to accept what Josephus recorded would mean the world has to accept that Daniel is the word of God, that it is real prophecy. the world really really really doesn't want to do that.



personally i suspect that Josephus exagerrated a bit but that his account does more or less represent actual history.
we will not know until the day all things are made known :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,418
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#9
personally i suspect that Josephus exagerrated a bit but that his account does more or less represent actual history.
That may or may not be true according to the Jewish Encyclopedia: "The historical character of this account is, however, doubted by many scholars (see Pauly-Wissowa, "Realencyklopädie," i. col. 1422)... All the accounts which the Talmud and Midrash give concerning Alexander MuḲdon (the Macedonian) are of a legendary character. Some of them pretend to be historical, as the following Baraita in Yoma, 69a (identical with Megillat Ta'anit, iii.)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#10
Many scholars doubt many things. You have testified to their error.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,418
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#11
Many scholars doubt many things. You have testified to their error.
No I have not testified to their error. Plutarch wrote extensively about Alexander, and even mentioned his going to Gaza. But not a word about his purported visit to Jerusalem, which is about 50 miles away in a straight line.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,114
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#12
So I read that Alexander the great arrived at the gates of Jerusalem and the Jews did the right thing by opening the gates to him for the first time lol, after they had given him wine and bread, the priests read to him a prophecy which was written by Daniel that foretold how a goat from the West(King of Greece) would knock out the ram(Persian Empire), Alexander upon hearing this was glad but did he not appoint a viceroy over the Jews to run the province for him like he did with many of his other provinces and why does scripture mention the leaders of the other empires and leaves out Alexander, Alexander is expressed figuratively while the others have been mentioned by name:

King Nebuchadnezzar-Babylonian Empire
Cyrus The Great-Persian Empire
Goat from the West-Greco Empire
Augustus Caesar-Roman Empire


Are there any canonical sources that mention what Alexander did when the Jews surrendered, I would really love to know what happened.
And then the king of Greece does not serve any close role like Nebuchadnezzar throwing Daniel in the furnace and notices the Son of Man in there or Cyrus ordering the rebuilding of the temple and ending of the Babylonian exile of the Jews or Augustus Caesar ordering the counting of all people, Jesus involved. Why is Alexander not even mentioned anywhere in the following version "and when the king of Greece approached Jerusalem, the king and priests knowing this to be a fulfillment of prophecy, opened the gates to him and gave him bread and wine and read to him a prophecy by Daniel foretelling his military conquest." Is there any source that sites this?
the macabean books are worth a read it’s Jewish history from the time of Malachi’s end , until the time of Matthews events begin somewhere from 350 -250 years of Jewish history

Antiochus epiphanies is an important figure a Greek king who ended the daily sacrifice of the Jews and sacrificed a pig to Zeus on the altar in the temple.claiming also divinity among the Jews. Around 170-200 bc before rome took over
 
Aug 3, 2019
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#13
Israel was as surrendered to the authority of ATG as they were to Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Rome: at the time of the Babylonian captivity, God said to Israel through Ezekiel:

21:26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this [shall] not [be] the same: exalt [him that is] low, and abase [him that is] high.​
21:27 I will overturn (from Babylon to Medo-Persia), overturn (from Medo-Persia to Greece), overturn (from Greece to Rome), it: and it shall be no [more], until He (Jesus) come Whose right it is; and I will give it [Him].​

Israel never regained their former glory because God means business. He sends warning after warning, so we may know that when His hammer of justice falls, He's already been more than patient. Just as was the case when He prolonged the life of Methuselah (meaning: "when he dies, it - the Deluge - shall come") to the point of unnatural longevity, to delay the destruction of the Earth so that His mercy to a could be seen to have been extended to the Antediluvians BEYOND REASON.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#14
That may or may not be true according to the Jewish Encyclopedia: "The historical character of this account is, however, doubted by many scholars (see Pauly-Wissowa, "Realencyklopädie," i. col. 1422)... All the accounts which the Talmud and Midrash give concerning Alexander MuḲdon (the Macedonian) are of a legendary character. Some of them pretend to be historical, as the following Baraita in Yoma, 69a (identical with Megillat Ta'anit, iii.)
You have testified.
 
Dec 4, 2021
66
12
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#15
Israel was as surrendered to the authority of ATG as they were to Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Rome: at the time of the Babylonian captivity, God said to Israel through Ezekiel:

21:26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this [shall] not [be] the same: exalt [him that is] low, and abase [him that is] high.​
21:27 I will overturn (from Babylon to Medo-Persia), overturn (from Medo-Persia to Greece), overturn (from Greece to Rome), it: and it shall be no [more], until He (Jesus) come Whose right it is; and I will give it [Him].​

Israel never regained their former glory because God means business. He sends warning after warning, so we may know that when His hammer of justice falls, He's already been more than patient. Just as was the case when He prolonged the life of Methuselah (meaning: "when he dies, it - the Deluge - shall come") to the point of unnatural longevity, to delay the destruction of the Earth so that His mercy to a could be seen to have been extended to the Antediluvians BEYOND REASON.
God surely knows the end from the beginning, ans this is well interpreted. Jesus kingdom there shall be no end to it. Neither shall we die anymore because we will be wearing immortality.
 
Dec 4, 2021
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#16
No I have not testified to their error. Plutarch wrote extensively about Alexander, and even mentioned his going to Gaza. But not a word about his purported visit to Jerusalem, which is about 50 miles away in a straight line.
Many historians hold the record of Plutarch as the true one because the other one written by Josephus is the only account that tries to decode what boiled down when Alexander visited Jerusalem.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#17
When the New Jerusalem is established by the Father, then will the true Israel be known. It will be glorious.
 
Dec 4, 2021
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#18
When the New Jerusalem is established by the Father, then will the true Israel be known. It will be glorious.
Though the mark of rome will forever be written in our minds and hearts even in heaven because the holes on our saviour's hands and feet were imprinted on him by Roman soldiers. The soldier who did this to Jesus though was forgiven because Jesus said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they are doing"
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#19
Again I must say.

When the New Jerusalem is established by the Father, then will the true Israel be known. It will be glorious.
The anticipation is reward enough towait patiently.
 
Dec 4, 2021
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#20
When Daniel was shown that vision of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, I was shocked to learn that Pagan tribes were always incited by Satan to rise so the word of God is fullfilled, given this and may other prophets who foretold the coming of the Messiah. I believe that the number 666 will be a reality because the devil will incite a ruler to give that order, Honor and Glory be to the Eternal King, Yahuwah. He is God and his mystery is unfathomable.