How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Jul 23, 2018
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The timing of the arrival of Jesus, whether pre or post trib, does have a profound impact on the susceptibility to deception that people have. When pre-tribbers are looking for Christ to come before the tribulation, actually they'll get the anti-Christ who will persecute and kill all of those Christians who allegedly rejected Christ. Actually, that will be the anti-Christ deceiving the world.

As the true Christians are being persecuted and martyred, the pre-tribbers will think this passage is coming to pass:

2 Thessalonians 1:5-8
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

When in reality, this passage will be coming to pass:

Revelation 13:7-10
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

If people aren't really sure what the devil is up to, attempting to counterfeit all of the legitimate and good things that God will do, then they will fall for these deceptions and be an accessory to the martyrdom of their previous brothers and sisters.

All of that being said, Islam does have it's own eschatology. To understand Islamic eschatology, just reverse it from Christianity. In Christianity the anti-Christ comes then Jesus comes. In Islam, Jesus comes to first then afterwards the anti-Christ.

As you can see, by the time Jesus actually comes the Islamic world will have rejected Him, maybe half of the Christian world will have rejected Him, and probably most of the secular world will have rejected Him. These leaves a relatively small group of people who will actually know who Jesus is according to the scriptures.
Lol
You just declared correctly that the AC overcomes the saints.
Kills all refusing the mark.

You go on to assume only the ones waiting for the AC have a superior position vs the ones looking for Jesus.

Too funny.
Yes deception must be avoided
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You have without a doubt referred to pre-trib believers as liars! You can't deny that!

But that is not important, what is important is that you do what I have done several times, explain your view of the post-trib account.

None of you have done this, what you like to do is let us explain the pre-trib view then fire back with your difference in scripture interpretation.

Let's try this David, present your account and let's see if it holds water. Then we can begin to see which account is closer to the truth!
i think he is " mid trib rapture", IOW the rapture takes place 3.5 yrs into the gt.

He is MAINLY " anti pretrib" firstly, postrib / prewrath secondly.

IOW His main thrust is simply to defy pretrib verses.

According to him , us pretribbers can not tell the truth and sit in satans lap gobbling down every word from hell.
I had to go "ignore" on him as he is not willing to civilly debate.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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You have without a doubt referred to pre-trib believers as liars! You can't deny that!

But that is not important, what is important is that you do what I have done several times, explain your view of the post-trib account.

None of you have done this, what you like to do is let us explain the pre-trib view then fire back with your difference in scripture interpretation.

Let's try this David, present your account and let's see if it holds water. Then we can begin to see which account is closer to the truth!
As a student of the Bible, how would prove that statement ( A.) below is false???

A.) Pre-trib rapture is a lie for it never came out of the Mouth of God = from Genesis to Revelation it never was spoken by God.

Statement B is a direct pronouncement from the Mouth of God of Post-Trib rapture.

B.) Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Friend, I mean no offense, but it's so frustrating dealing with such out of whack theology. You claim the Soul and Spirit went to the same place, but the Bible testifies Jesus' Spirit went UP (Luke 23:46 KJV) to the Father's hands, but His Soul went DOWN (Acts 2:27 KJV) to Hades aka "the place of the dead" aka "the grave". Got it, friend? The Soul and the Spirit are not the same thing, as Hebrews 4:12 KJV proves by testifying the Spirit can be divided from the Soul as assuredly as bone marrow can be divided from skeletal joints, which is a whole comprised of parts consisting of bone, marrow, cartilage, etc., which things are not the same.
The "spirits in prison" to which the Spirit of Jesus preached refers to the Antediluvians - sinners bound in the "prison house of sin" with which God's (Jesus') Spirit strove before the Flood, and Peter is simply informing us that it's the same Spirit that raised Jesus up from the dead. Again, a "spirit" is not a translucent carbon copy of a person minus the flesh that flies off at a person's death to either stroll in heaven or burn in hell - it is exactly what Genesis 2:7 KJV says: the thing issued forth from God to give life and returns unto God at death.
Since you reject CLEAR as DAY Scripture from the Word of God, you will not be able to understand = this is how God works.

i notice you like to speak from the format of "Did God really say?"
 
Aug 2, 2021
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i think he is " mid trib rapture", IOW the rapture takes place 3.5 yrs into the gt.

He is MAINLY " anti pretrib" firstly, postrib / prewrath secondly.

IOW His main thrust is simply to defy pretrib verses.

According to him , us pretribbers can not tell the truth and sit in satans lap gobbling down every word from hell.
I had to go "ignore" on him as he is not willing to civilly debate.

Where in the Gospels, the Apostles Writings and/or Revelation is a 7 Year Period stated???
 
Aug 2, 2021
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You have without a doubt referred to pre-trib believers as liars! You can't deny that!

But that is not important, what is important is that you do what I have done several times, explain your view of the post-trib account.

None of you have done this, what you like to do is let us explain the pre-trib view then fire back with your difference in scripture interpretation.

Let's try this David, present your account and let's see if it holds water. Then we can begin to see which account is closer to the truth!

POST #5,744

In order for pre-trib rapture to be true, Statement A.) and Statement B.) must both be false.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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As a student of the Bible, how would prove that statement ( A.) below is false???

A.) Pre-trib rapture is a lie for it never came out of the Mouth of God = from Genesis to Revelation it never was spoken by God.

Statement B is a direct pronouncement from the Mouth of God of Post-Trib rapture.

B.) Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
There is a pre-trib and a mid-trib view because the post-trib view does not fulfil scripture!

The post-trib view claims the unsaved will enter into the millennium when the scripture plainly shows only the born-again will enter.

Are you afraid to give us your post-trib view David, from beginning to end?

Everything in scripture is not black and white as you are suggesting.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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There is a pre-trib and a mid-trib view because the post-trib view does not fulfil scripture!

The post-trib view claims the unsaved will enter into the millennium when the scripture plainly shows only the born-again will enter.

Are you afraid to give us your post-trib view David, from beginning to end?

Everything in scripture is not black and white as you are suggesting.
Focus on the words of Christ and the Apostles and Revelation.

SEE if you can find them saying "the Lord will come before Tribulation to rapture His Bride/Church/Elect/Saints".

Eve focused on the words of the serpent - how did that turn out???
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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POST #5,744

In order for pre-trib rapture to be true, Statement A.) and Statement B.) must both be false.
Who are the "elect" of Matt. 24:31?

Beginning in Matt. 24:32, Jesus give the parable of the "fig tree."

Who is the "fig tree" David? That is who the "elect" are of Matt. 24:31.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
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63
Focus on the words of Christ and the Apostles and Revelation.

SEE if you can find them saying "the Lord will come before Tribulation to rapture His Bride/Church/Elect/Saints".

Eve focused on the words of the serpent - how did that turn out???
Show me your post-trib view and I will show you why there is a pre-trib view!
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Who are the "elect" of Matt. 24:31?

Beginning in Matt. 24:32, Jesus give the parable of the "fig tree."

Who is the "fig tree" David? That is who the "elect" are of Matt. 24:31.
Who are the "elect" of Matt. 24:31?

Beginning in Matt. 24:32, Jesus give the parable of the "fig tree."

Who is the "fig tree" David? That is who the "elect" are of Matt. 24:31.
A.) Who are elect of Matt 24:31?
Answer: John 1:10-13 , John 14:5-6 , 1 Peter 1:1-2
The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
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A.) Who are elect of Matt 24:31?
Answer: John 1:10-13 , John 14:5-6 , 1 Peter 1:1-2
The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
See David, this is where you fail to recognize Israel in scripture as I have been telling you!

God deals separately with Israel and until you acknowledge that you will be left in the dark.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
i think he is " mid trib rapture", IOW the rapture takes place 3.5 yrs into the gt.

He is MAINLY " anti pretrib" firstly, postrib / prewrath secondly.

IOW His main thrust is simply to defy pretrib verses.

According to him , us pretribbers can not tell the truth and sit in satans lap gobbling down every word from hell.
I had to go "ignore" on him as he is not willing to civilly debate.
That makes sense since he approaches the scripture literally. He could be one of the many who believe in the mid-trib.

That is stating that the first 3.5 years of the tribulation is the wrath of Satan and the latter 3.5 years is the wrath of God, the worst time this world has ever seen of ever will see.

This would mean the Church goes through the wrath of Satan but not the wrath of God.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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A friend warned me not to come to this forum.
He said there is no discussion, only people preaching what they believe.
A lot of shouting, judging, misuse of Scripture, and very little truth and understanding.
I have not read all the post, but enough that I agree with him.
In Luke, when Jesus sent the 12 out, and again when He sent the 70 out, He instructed them to only stay and teach those who would listen. Those who would not, they were to not waste time on them.
There is a lot of time wasted here that could be better spent.
I have learned over the years that teaching takes time and can not be accomplished when everyone is speaking at the same time.
I have also learned that changing someone's mind on this subject is almost impossible.
Only when a person begins to question what he has been taught and believes will he seek the truth.
I was taught and believe in the imminent, pre-tribulation rapture.
As I began to study, I soon began to doubt what I believed. When I asked those older and wiser, their answers did not satisfy. The Scripture they used was misused, taken out of context, and had their own interpretation placed on it.
Through much prayer and study, I came to the correct understanding.
The anti-christ will come out of Islam.
He will have 1290 days to reign until Jesus comes and the resurrection of all whose name is in the book of life.
There will be no third temple. No 7 year peace treaty with Israel. No pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
I will not debate you. I will not discuss this with you. I will not try to teach you the truth in the atmosphere that is present here. No one will listen. No reason to waste my time.
Just stating what I believe.
This is my first and last post on the subject.
Amazing...you think the Antichrist will come out of Islam, though John specifically says of Antichrist that they "went out from us", the church. Also, Paul calls the "Man of Sin", which everyone almost unanimously agrees is the infamous Antichrist, the "son of perdition" which, incidentally, is a reference to only one other person in Scripture - Judas - who did what? You guessed it...started out as an insider but eventually went out from among them in apostasy, right or wrong?

Another person drinking the Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurist koolaid.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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See David, this is where you fail to recognize Israel in scripture as I have been telling you!

God deals separately with Israel and until you acknowledge that you will be left in the dark.
Concerning Israel of the flesh which is lost in sin and eternal damnation God says:

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.” - John ch8

You need to heed these words of Christ.
AND these words as well: Matthew ch23

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
Concerning Israel of the flesh which is lost in sin and eternal damnation God says:

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.” - John ch8

You need to heed these words of Christ.
AND these words as well: Matthew ch23

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’
You need to read some of the many promises of God to Israel.

Isaiah 11:11-12

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Does the "gathering from the four corners of the earth" ring a bell?
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Since you reject CLEAR as DAY Scripture from the Word of God, you will not be able to understand = this is how God works.
Friend, what you call "clear as day" is actually an impenetrable fog of twisted Scripture.
i notice you like to speak from the format of "Did God really say?"
I would argue "did God really say?" is more applicable to how you roll. The serpent offered no evidence against God's Word, he just twisted it - need I remind you of the following?:

1) You said Jesus' Soul and Spirit went to the same place.
2) I showed you the Spirit and Soul aren't the same because His Spirit went UP (Luke 23:46 KJV), but His Soul went DOWN (Acts 2:27 KJV).
3) I then further proved this by Hebrews 4:12 KJV which says the Soul and the Spirit can be divided one from the other as assuredly as bone marrow can be divided from a joint.

It's by your inability to refute these truths and your stubborn refusal to give up your errors that makes you so like him.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Friend, what you call "clear as day" is actually an impenetrable fog of twisted Scripture.
I would argue "did God really say?" is more applicable to how you roll. The serpent offered no evidence against God's Word, he just twisted it - need I remind you of the following?:

1) You said Jesus' Soul and Spirit went to the same place.
2) I showed you the Spirit and Soul aren't the same because His Spirit went UP (Luke 23:46 KJV), but His Soul went DOWN (Acts 2:27 KJV).
3) I then further proved this by Hebrews 4:12 KJV which says the Soul and the Spirit can be divided one from the other as assuredly as bone marrow can be divided from a joint.

It's by your inability to refute these truths and your stubborn refusal to give up your errors that makes you so like him.
You quoted from Ecclesiastes and denied the TRUTH spoken by the Apostles and the LORD Himself.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Since you reject CLEAR as DAY Scripture from the Word of God, you will not be able to understand = this is how God works.

i notice you like to speak from the format of "Did God really say?"
"""....the Bible testifies Jesus' Spirit went UP (Luke 23:46 KJV) to the Father's hands, but His Soul went DOWN (Acts 2:27...."""

There is nothing in vs 46 indicating Jesus spirit went to heaven at the crucifixion.




46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.