Conspiracies are Biblical & Rational

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Combanitorics

Combanitorics

Banned
#3
Oct 29, 2021
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#3
Of course they are. That's also the message of Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Think about what conspiracy means, and I posted my own opinion (see article three section three being my opinion, basically) elsewhere. A conspiracy, well take the civil war as an example. "Let's get together and make a plan to divide the country". Now that's the definition of rationality. A ratio is a fraction, the comparison of two numbers, specifically the comparison of a part to the whole. Totally rational. (Now, that's not the same as saying reasonable. the two words, rational and reasonable, do mean different things).
 
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Gideon300

Well-known member
#4
Mar 18, 2021
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#4
TruthSeeker27 said:
Christian Philosopher Jay Dyer surveys the fact that Conspiracies are the norm in both Scripture and history.

Are Conspiracies Rational? Biblical?
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It's fine when conspiracy theories have some basis in fact. It's not fine when patently false claims are made, such as that the lunar landings were fabricated. It is dangerous to attribute motives to people when you have no idea in reality. For example, I was told that the astronauts who landed on the moon did not look happy, so it must have been fabricated. So of course that means all happy people have landed on the moon....... It does not go like that.

In reality, the astronauts were suffering the physical effects from space travel. The human body is not designed to handle zero or very low gravity. One major effect is anaemia, which produces physical weakness and lethargy. And that's it. No conspiracy at all.
 
Combanitorics

Combanitorics

Banned
#5
Oct 29, 2021
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#5
One thing about rationality and conspiracy is the story in John 11, there's a part where Caiaphas the High Priest is in council after Jesus raises Lazarus and he says, "let's get rid of this guy, he does too many miracles. Caiaphas is being rational. Jesus is one, the nation is many. It's a comparison of the single citizen to the whole republic.
 
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Gideon300

Well-known member
#6
Mar 18, 2021
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#6
Combanitorics said:
One thing about rationality and conspiracy is the story in John 11, there's a part where Caiaphas the High Priest is in council after Jesus raises Lazarus and he says, "let's get rid of this guy, he does too many miracles. Caiaphas is being rational. Jesus is one, the nation is many. It's a comparison of the single citizen to the whole republic.
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Many people assume that the term conspiracy theory means a baseless assumption that the obvious conclusion from revealed facts is not true. I do not assume that. Reading the OT history, there were conspiracies everywhere. King David conspired to get Uriah killed to cover up his sin with Bathsheba. Jacob's sons conspired to get rid of Joseph. And on and on.
 
Combanitorics

Combanitorics

Banned
#7
Oct 29, 2021
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#7
Gideon300 said:
Many people assume that the term conspiracy theory means a baseless assumption that the obvious conclusion from revealed facts is not true. I do not assume that. Reading the OT history, there were conspiracies everywhere. King David conspired to get Uriah killed to cover up his sin with Bathsheba. Jacob's sons conspired to get rid of Joseph. And on and on.
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Basically, a secret plot to commit a crime, that's a conspiracy. I have to just be honest here and tell you up front that I don't even see what's out of the ordinary about that. Crime is very common, it's even prevalent. The thing is, that every criminal is secretive. People who are partners in crime like gunmen and drivers who rob banks together, keep their plans a secret, and if there is more than one criminal, they do that as a group.
 
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Gideon300

Well-known member
#8
Mar 18, 2021
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#8
Combanitorics said:
Basically, a secret plot to commit a crime, that's a conspiracy. I have to just be honest here and tell you up front that I don't even see what's out of the ordinary about that. Crime is very common, it's even prevalent. The thing is, that every criminal is secretive. People who are partners in crime like gunmen and drivers who rob banks together, keep their plans a secret, and if there is more than one criminal, they do that as a group.
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Sure, but conspiracy theorists assume a secret, hidden agenda in the most innocent of activities.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#9
Feb 20, 2021
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#9
I guess Jay Dyer doesn't want to be a part of his own thread.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#10
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
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#10
TruthSeeker27 said:
Christian Philosopher Jay Dyer surveys the fact that Conspiracies are the norm in both Scripture and history.
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Correct. The major conspiracies would be these:
1. Lucifer conspired with one-third of the angels to rebel against God. They failed.
2. Satan conspired to deceive Eve and bring about the Fall. He succeeded.
3. Evil angels conspired to corrupt mankind and bring about the Flood. They succeeded.
4. The religious leaders at the time of Christ conspired to have Him crucified and succeeded.
5. A cabal of Satanist Jews has conspired to enslave the world and bring about the reign of the Antichrist, and they are succeeding.
6. Democrats and the media conspired with a number of entities to remove Donald Trump from the presidency, and put imposter Biden in the White House. They succeeded.
7. Anthony Fauci et al conspired to bring about a Scamdemic ,so that the world would be subjected to (a) COVID tyranny and (b) bogus vaccines (which would kill and destroy people). They succeeded.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#11
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
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#11
Gideon300 said:
Sure, but conspiracy theorists assume a secret, hidden agenda in the most innocent of activities.
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They may give THE APPEARANCE of innocence, but that does not mean they are innocent.
 
JStates

JStates

Banned
#13
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#13
Gideon300 said:
It's fine when conspiracy theories have some basis in fact. It's not fine when patently false claims are made, such as that the lunar landings were fabricated. It is dangerous to attribute motives to people when you have no idea in reality. For example, I was told that the astronauts who landed on the moon did not look happy, so it must have been fabricated. So of course that means all happy people have landed on the moon....... It does not go like that.

In reality, the astronauts were suffering the physical effects from space travel. The human body is not designed to handle zero or very low gravity. One major effect is anaemia, which produces physical weakness and lethargy. And that's it. No conspiracy at all.
Click to expand...
The astronots "on the moon" did a really good job of hinting what was really going on by taking photos of things like cigarette butts in dust piles and the empty inside of their experimental laboratory cabinet.

Most people just weren't paying attention to their blatant cry for help.

I'm still waiting for an answer as to how they took the footage of "the first steps on the Moon" from outside the lander.
 
Combanitorics

Combanitorics

Banned
#15
Oct 29, 2021
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#15
What I think, you know, there's a lot more to numeracy than being rational. Being reasonable is to do with logic, actually. Logic isn't even math; it just has nothing to do with it. You can connect logic to grammar, but the fundamental issue is still the truth value of the statement. Logic is just an ancient preChristian Greek religion anyway. That's what Aristotle's Nicomachian Ethics is, seriously. It's his religion.
 
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Gideon300

Well-known member
#16
Mar 18, 2021
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#16
JStates said:
The astronots "on the moon" did a really good job of hinting what was really going on by taking photos of things like cigarette butts in dust piles and the empty inside of their experimental laboratory cabinet.

Most people just weren't paying attention to their blatant cry for help.

I'm still waiting for an answer as to how they took the footage of "the first steps on the Moon" from outside the lander.
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You are utterly deceived and completely unteachable. I'll leave you to your fantasy world.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#17
Feb 20, 2021
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#17
JStates said:
I don't think it's him. I've watched some of Dyer's stuff over on Rokfin. His beard isn't as epic as TruthSeeker's.
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Yeah, but the eyebrows and the little patch under the lower lip appear to be of the same source. I'm probably wrong, however. :)
 
JStates

JStates

Banned
#18
Jan 5, 2022
1,224
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#18
Gideon300 said:
You are utterly deceived and completely unteachable. I'll leave you to your fantasy world.
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I'm actually very easygoing and always got along with my teachers better than my peers. But when I am sure about something, I am as stubborn as a bulldog. One time, my fifth grade teacher, a tough old ex-Army cook, chewed me out in front of the whole class because I was certain I was correct about a grammar question on a test that he had marked wrong. I was almost in tears. I made sure I was respectful, but I didn't back down. Turns out I was correct and he was wrong, and he went and checked into it afterwards. I will always remember that he was humble enough to apologize to me in front of the whole class. I'll always respect him for that.

I might be wrong about some of the details of how the Earth system works. I'm just a guy trying to figure things out for himself. But I absolutely know I'm being lied to about the globe. Having seen the lie, I'll never back down about this.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#19
Feb 20, 2021
5,434
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#19
JStates said:
I'm actually very easygoing and always got along with my teachers better than my peers. But when I am sure about something, I am as stubborn as a bulldog. One time, my fifth grade teacher, a tough old ex-Army cook, chewed me out in front of the whole class because I was certain I was correct about a grammar question on a test that he had marked wrong. I was almost in tears. I made sure I was respectful, but I didn't back down. Turns out I was correct and he was wrong, and he went and checked into it afterwards. I will always remember that he was humble enough to apologize to me in front of the whole class. I'll always respect him for that.

I might be wrong about some of the details of how the Earth system works. I'm just a guy trying to figure things out for himself. But I absolutely know I'm being lied to about the globe. Having seen the lie, I'll never back down about this.
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Even if you're wrong, you won't be leading anyone to hell through what you believe and express. Don't back down, brother.

And, THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE!
 
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Gideon300

Well-known member
#20
Mar 18, 2021
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#20
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Even if you're wrong, you won't be leading anyone to hell through what you believe and express. Don't back down, brother.

And, THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE!
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There is a principle here and it is fundamental to Christianity. It is truth. Flat Earther's live in denial of the truth. Other, more dangerous deceptions abound. FE people have no discernment and hence are more likely to be deceived on other issues as well.
 
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