We the new chosen people, are Jews no longer chosen people?

Is anyone

Wow! It's really hard to read all this us and them stuff. We need to all spend some time in Ephesians 3 (the mystery of Christ revealed) and pick up on this later.

Maybe someone who has read the whole thing can give a summary, please.

It's a rather long back and forth, that was interrupted by a poster saying they are sinless and arguing with other posts. But the thread was supposed to be about whether the Jews are still God's chosen people, or has all their blessings gone to the church and the church has replaced Israel. That's the basic back and forth question. Hope that helps clear it up some.

Ok,so now that the troll is gone, let's settle in and discuss this without sarcasm. First things first. The covenant I am speaking of is the one that God made with Abram. And yes, it was unconditional. Not all the covenants were, but that one was. And all the other covenants rest back on the first one. So while the Jews lost use of the land they never lost the deed to the land. It's still promised to them and God will fulfill that promise.




What does Romans 11 say? You can answer all those questions by reading Romans 11.

There is still the land promise made to Israel, and God will keep it. If not, He would be a liar. Surely you don't believe that.

That's far from the true, because Israel been in captivity for very long time. The southern tribe went in captivity in 70 A.D. when Titus sack Jerusalem. Let' s take a look at in Luke 21: 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

As of now the Gentile is still running the world until the second coming of Jesus, then Israel can return home.

No, sorry, that is true, Israel is the nation that was born in a day. Israel is not in captivity today and people have come home to that nation from around the world, and they are still coming. God is beginning to gather Jews from around the world back to Israel.

No! Israel will not be gather together as a nation until the second coming of Jesus or until the end of the Gentiles, which is about the same time. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Luke 21: 20-24)


In the scriptures it's written in the future in Isaiah 11: 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

According to the Bible verses I post, it speaks for itself.

“led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

67-70 ad when jesrualem was surrounded and besieged and destroyed leaving thier temple destroyed and nation desolate. About 30 years after he told them that.

the gospel is the only way anyone Jew or gentile can be saved lol it was first exclusively preached to Israel throughout thier nation by Jesus d the seventy messengers he sent tomoresch the gospel only to israel first

after they rejected him and crucified him the same gospel was sent to all nations and would be until the end. Whoever believes the gospel will be saved whether Jew or gentile there’s no other way but through Christ and the gospel

it was first preached to them and then preached in all nations gathering all
People into one kingdom

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Gentiles we’re welcomed into the same kingdom because of the gospel given first to the Jews and then after they killed Jesus was sent to all people. There is no second gathering that happened after Babylon they were re gathered and promised the messiah would come to restore them they rejected him and just like Jesus said the kingdom was taken from them and given to people who would believe and produce it’s fruits whether they were formerly a Jew or a gentile

when the gospel is done being preached that’s the end of the world Gentiles will have come in as well as Jew who were first.

it’s odd people believe there’s another salvstion other than Christ and what he said was the only way but I suppose folks will believe what they will


The Jews can’t be saved until they repent and believe the gospel of any jew does that he’ll be saved just like Peter Paul John the believing remnant of the Jews who were the original church that went out and witnessed it tonthe world all
People gentile and Jew

one kingdom one people Jew one lord one faith one God and mediator between God and man Jesus Christ

bekng born a Jew cannot save anyone being born of Christ will save gentile or Jew

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s Gods elect Jew or gentile formerly doesn’t matter there’s just Christ and salvation and no other way to be saved

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

you understand that’s a Jewish man saying the at I hope.

if any Jew repents and believes the gospel they will be a part of Gods kingdom like any gentile will be the only way to belong to Gods kingdom lol is to accept the gospel of Gods kingdom.

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

first to Jew

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then to gentile and then the end they who believe will make up Gods kingdom those who reject Jesus Christ will be left desolate hoping in a fallacy believing there's some other way other than the way truth and life

race doesn’t matter won’t save anyone faith will save anyone if it’s in Christ

As we work through this problem, we must keep in mind that scripture speaks of Israel on many different levels. There is the literal Israel, the land. Israel was formed for a spiritual purpose--to illustrate God for the worldly nations. In God's perspective, God sees man as being aware that God is God and they belong to him or as lost people with no knowledge of the truth. God eve sees Israelites in this way. The Lord sees Israel also as all those who accept him with faith.

God has promised to bless Israel based only on that they accepted the commission to do this, but many times they have failed to do this.

Scripture speaks of Israel on all these levels, and often it is hard to determine what level of Israel scripture is speaking of. Most of these posts address the land of Israel, and the worldly nation on that land.

We and our world are created in the image of God, so what happens in the literal world reflects the spiritual.

I believe what God says friend . do you believe there’s another way to be saved other than what Jesus offers ?

“And yes, it was unconditional. Not all the covenants were, but that one was. And all the other covenants rest back on the first one. So while the Jews lost use of the land they never lost the deed to the land. It's still promised to them and God will fulfill that promise.”

I’m mean yeah I understand that’s what you think.

But he already did fulfill that promise when they entered into the promised land he chose Moses To lead them out of Egypt after 400 years of oppression and gave him a law and said Before They entered into the land of promise and then Joshua led them across the Jordan into the promised land. It’s thier everlastong possession but they made it desolate and it’s going to be destroyed with the earth is the thing it’s not going to last they cursed it

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

The Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.

The Lord shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. The Lord shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.

The Lord will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.

The Lord shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof.

Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them.

Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand.

The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

The Lord shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head

. The Lord shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee.

Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for the locust shall consume it. Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them.

Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit. Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity. All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume. The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15-46‬ ‭


they broke his covenant the law was made to govern israel
In the promised land friend it’s not seperate from what he told Abram the Hebrew he made a lromkse and fulfilled it and they cursed the land by disregarding the law and fulfilling it as a course like he said they would do

indeed he promised to restore them that’s why he sent Jesus but they rejected Jesus is what you don’t seem to see any significance in and the result was what ? The kingdom was taken from them who murdered his son and offered to people who would actually bear fruit and hear him and obey and not worship false dieties all along

did you notice how the prophets end ? This was the promise of restoration and a new covenant

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and again the condition ?

“And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when they killed Jesus you should consider the significance of what he said about that and ask yourself

can a Jew be saved because he was born of Hebrew blood as he rejects Jesus and the gospel ?

what you are basically saying is there’s a different way for Jews to be saved and that’s not true the Jews on this earth who repent and believe the gospel will all be saved the Gentiles who repent and believe the gospel will all be saved

the world the earth and everything in it including the earth Thy my tenporal
Land of promise is cursed and will be destroyed

God has made a new covenant because the old was broken because yes the conditions are what God places upon it the curses he warned them of are true just like the blessings they never fuflilled

now jew or gentile has the gospel just like all the early church we’re all Jews converted to Christianity and all the Gentiles who believed and converted to Christianity all are one group of people Gods elect the church who is baptized into Christ

there’s no other way friend have to accept Jesus or there’s only desolation and fantasy left he’s it he is the fulfillment of all Gods promises offered to all nations bekng born of a certain race means absolutely zero whether we accept and learn to love Jesus is everything

there’s no other way to be saved for Jew or gentile and nothing on this earth is going to be preserved he’s made a new promised land where chrirt is seated on the throne

The regathering is beginning. Before 1948 there was no where to gather to. Of course it will not be "completely" fulfilled until the second coming. smh The point is it has begun.

Did you read Romans 11 as I asked? What answer did you find there?!



No, that is what the Bible says.
The actual covenant is found in Genesis 12:1–3. The ceremony recorded in Genesis 15 indicates the unconditional nature of the covenant. When a covenant was dependent upon both parties keeping commitments, then both parties would pass between the pieces of animals. In Genesis 15, God alone moves between the halves of the animals. Abraham was in a deep sleep. God’s solitary action indicates that the covenant is principally His promise. He binds Himself to the covenant.

“I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you”

The Abrahamic Covenant included the promise of land (Genesis 12:1). It was a specific land, an actual property, with dimensions specified in Genesis 15:18–21. In Genesis 13:15, God gives Abraham all the land that he can see, and the gift is declared to be “forever.”

The territory given as part of the Abrahamic Covenant is expanded in Deuteronomy 30:1–10

At no point in history, though, has Israel controlled all of the land God had specified. There remains, therefore, a final fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant that will see Israel occupying their God-given homeland to the fullest extent. The fulfillment will be more than a matter of geography; it will also be a time of holiness and restoration (see Ezekiel 20:40–44 and 36:1—37:28).

The Abrahamic Covenant also promised many descendants (Genesis 12:2). God promised that the number of Abraham’s children would rival that of “the dust of the earth” (Genesis 15:16)

God reiterates the Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac and to his son Jacob, whose name God changes to Israel.

Five times in Genesis 12, as God is giving the Abrahamic Covenant, He says, “I will.” Clearly, God takes the onus of keeping the covenant upon Himself. The covenant is unconditional. One day, Israel will repent, be forgiven, and be restored to God’s favor (Zechariah 12:10–14; Romans 11:25–27). One day, the nation of Israel will possess the entire territory promised to them.


The above is the covenant we are talking about and it is UNCONDITIONAL. We are not talking about the other covenants that had conditions. We are talking about THIS one.



Annnnd we're back to Romans 11. What does it say?!



Sigh, no, there is still the unconditional covenant in place. You can't just ignore that part of the Bible because you don't like it. Yes, the Jews were and have been punished for faithlessness. But there is still that covenant to be fulfilled by God. God Himself said it was an everlasting promise. You're calling Him a liar.




There is still a remnant and a promise to be kept.

Perhaps the following will clarify things...

the messiah was given to restore isreal there’s no salvstion unless we accept the gospel the law and prophets are fulfilled.

any Israelite who accepts Jesus and the gospel will be saved same as Gentiles.

do you honestly believe anyone can be saved without Jesus and what he said ? Remember he was sent Tom israel first and then to gentile he came to Israel because that’s what their covenant came to the messiah goving a new covenant not according to thre one they broke that was the law for the land they were given

or possibly this would

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭

and then of course

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders ( israel ) rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬

the messiah was what the law and prophets promised isreal they rejected and killed him I’d say His word is sure and permanent

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if a Jew or gentile accepts this like foret the remnant ofnisrael
Did and became the church and then went and preached it to all
People (?gentiles ) to gather them into the kingdom

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they will be saved and are already members of the kingdom of God bekng born a Jew means nothing

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

being born of natural Jewish blood doesn’t make anyone anything this does

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the children of Abraham are those who accept Christ and the gospel me that’s the inheritance it belongs to Christ , they rejected him others accept him they are abrahams children and the hiers of Gods promises

what shade our skin is who our ancestors are has zero meaning faith in Christ is all that matters israel rejected him but for the remnant who believed when thier covenant promise came and even today Jews still convert to Christianity they are no different than Gentiles worship of God from esrthly Jerusalem ended

he’s no longer going to inhabit a man made temple ever again because the believer is his temple where he dwells inside of believers the old carnal system is irrelevant l the true things have come to pass

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jew or gentile means nothing converting to Christ and believing the gospel means everything and makes Gods elect the one church comprised of former Jews and former Gentiles who believed in Jesus and have a promised land waiting that isn’t defiled

“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what I believe:
The congregation of God will, in time, consist of a unified Israel consisting of the united kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and the gentile believers; made one in Jesus. The Lord will have 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes that are listed in Revelation.
These may be the future borders of Israel.

I think I can agree with that but I would say that it’s happening like this

first Israel’s covenant promise was sent specifically and exclusively to Israel

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

…Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he preached this in Israel only first

“And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:43‬ ‭

He sent out his disciples to preach it throughout isreal only

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:5-7‬ ‭

a remnant ( Jesus disciples ) accepted him and the message thier messih had come to give them to save them. After they had rejected him the unbelievers he then sent the same message out to all people like he said he would in prophecy

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m saying this part israels restoration is happening through the gospel and they are bekng gathered here after they pass away from thier flesh

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And so their earthly restoration happens when that city returns to earth at this time

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭

and in that city of God will be those who were with him in heaven both Jew the twelve tribes your talking of and then the inunerabke group of people from all nations standing in heaven before the throne the Gentiles

I believe the gospel is how the restoration comes about is my point israel will be restored but not the one on earth now it will be destroyed as scriptire says with the rest of earth and then the thkngs in heaven that got there through the gospel will come down from heaven upon the renewed earth

former Jews of earth and Gentiles will be the people but those things won’t be recalled or remembered it will be one kingdom those who enter the heavenly kingdom will make up the people of the new earth after death has been abolished for all the world


so I agree but I’m more talking about how it’s going to be restored he’s grtbhering his people in heaven through the promises of the gospel and they will be the new Jerusalem the people from all nations made into one people with one king and shepherd prepared for eternity eternal life on the new and incorruptible earth

this earth we know now is doomed and will be the place of punishment for the ungodly this red to happen before Israel’s restoration is my point and it’s not going to happen according to the ot

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

…..Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is this earth is defiled and doomed unclean and God is gathering things now in heaven Jew and gentile believers spirits are with him until the restoration of earth and heaven in one

my position is that’s when Israel’s restoration happens flyer Christ returns but if we don’t accept the gospel we aren’t going to be part of it

just what I myself believe though everyone has the right to believe what they do just sharing my own

I really think that most arguments happen here at CC because people are not reading responses but are simply responding with their POV. Can you print out what Romans 11 says?