Doctrine of Unconditional Election

The appointment itself is not of course pre or before the world began as Calvinism infer. What is clear is that when the gospel preached is believed results to eternal life, an that life is eternity and I have no problem about that. Your problem while looking at the lens of Calvinism is the word ordained, unfortunately, this is after the Gentiles were saved of the gospel preaching and as obviously seen in v49 where the word of the Lord was published...

If you are being influenced, one way or the other, none of your choices are free.



A conscience can be a restraining device. But it is also influenced in several ways. And not everyone is affected in the same way by their conscience.

You are already confused enough as it is, we should probably just stick to biblical topics.

Nope. Its called RECONCILING the scriptures.

If it is GOD who has mercy on who He has mercy and it is GOD who hardens whom He Will, then only those who God has had mercy on are ABLE to forsake their ways and their thoughts.

Should be obvious to a SAVED person.





When people succumb to the influences from below they sin.

When people listen to the influences of God they don't.


There is no real choice, except the ones people THINK they have based on their own image of themselves.

You will be what you were made to be. You will make the choices you were made to make.

Man believes from their heart of stone, unto Righteousness???

Or the New Heart that God gives them? Making Righteousness a gift as well...

Nope. Free will is simply opportunity. YOU make the choice among options. That's all it is.

Of course everyone can be influenced. So what? That doesn't mean anything. You are treating "influence" as if it FORCES you to make certain choices.

According to Rom 2:14,15 that is exactly what the conscience is for.

This is just irrelevant. In EVERY political election, everyone is exposed to every whatever is shown on TV, radio, newspaper, etc.

And the Bible is clear about free will. We first read about free will in the Garden of Eden.

But, it would appear that you believe that Adam was FORCED to eat the fruit. Nonsense. He made a choice.

Go ahead and keep reading Isa 55:7 BACKWARDS if you want to. But the Bible refutes your twist on it.

To succumb is to make a choice. Thanks for the example. That's free will.

Who do you know who is FORCED to sin? When you sin, are you FORCED to?

That's a choice. Not a FORCE.

Thanks for a very clear example of total confusion about what free will is.

You can believe that you are a puppet or robot all you want.

I know better. The ONLY REASON man is accountable and responsible for their actions is because they are FREE to make choices.

But I'm real sure that puppets don't understand that.

I guess God programmed you to be unable to understand what freedom is since He didn't give you any.

I'm still curious how you choose to sin, since you have no free will.

btw, free will can be defined as simply freedom to think. It really is that simple.

Not that puppets will be able to understand it.

FreeGrace2 said:
Right, and that is the point.

We DON'T "trust in ourselves for faith". We trust IN Jesus Christ for salvation. What's wrong with that?

Ro 10:10 SAYS that man believes from the heart. That is where we believe from.

Where does your belief come from?
It is really amazing to see how much hostility you have for Rom 10:10. Why is that?

Since Epoh 2:5 and 8 prove that regeneration and faith are THROUGH FAITH, you need to divest yourself of the calvinistic notion that man must be regenerated so he can believe.

Lol, You believe men can ordain people to eternal life ? Wow what men will say to avoid the obvious. Only God can ordain a person to eternal life. Jn 17:3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

That word ordained denotes Gods arrangement, forming, creating. I believe it has to do with how God created or made some as vessels of honor like Rom 9:21-23


Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:22

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Thats the whole problem now, man wants to contribute to eternal life, going to heaven, to be like the Most High !

Sounds like robotics to me.

well ... "our natural desire to justify ourselves before God" would conflict with your earlier statements that the unbeliever's heart would never seek God to begin with.

Here is what Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges says about your conjecture that "the work of the law is our natural desire to justify ourselves before God by our own efforts (work) for righteousness":


In all actuality, Rom 2:14-15 clearly states that the gentiles do by nature the things contained in the law. We see the same thing today. There are people who do not believe in God, yet hold themselves to an ethical standard that in some respects is in alignment with God's law (not good to steal, lie, cheat, etc., etc.).

The point of the passage, however, is that even gentiles who do by nature the things contained in the law are still in need of salvation through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no salvation outside of Him.


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Umm, you really have a problem my friend, what i am talking about the word ordain that man can appoint. It's not about people can remit sins or give eternal life.

Because natural man has not been given faith, there is no desire within them to be justified before God through Jesus Christ. Starting from birth, in the heart of natural man, is a desire to follow a gospel other than God's Gospel: it is the gospel of Satan, from which they strive through works to earn salvation. They perceive Satan as god and God as Satan and so choose to follow Satan's gospel, not God's. The great lie of Satan is in us all from birth. So, to answer your question about my reply, they do seek to justify themselves to him whom they perceive as god (but who is not God) but are blind to the Gospel of the true God and so do not want nor are concerned with their justification before Him.

There is nothing a man can do to save himself; God alone must do that for us for He is the Saviour. Those who become saved do demonstrate the attributes of a Christian, but that is an effect, not a cause. Many people who are unsaved maintain very high ethical and moral standards relative to law because they believe by so doing, they assist with their salvation, however, that is not the correct yardstick to measure one's salvation.

I would state it as "by the faith OF the Lord Jesus Christ" however, I couldn't agree more with your last sentence.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

I am kind of tired and not thinking too clearly, so I really hope my reply makes sense and addressed your questions.
I reread tomorrow and may reply to you again

Acts 13:48 is speakig about men being ordained to eternal life, thats Gods jurisdiction not mans.

Things that are ordained are not necessarily fixed. It was ordered by God for the gospel to eventually go to the Gentiles. God had ordained Gentiles to eternal life through believing the gospel.

Grandpa said:
Man believes from their heart of stone, unto Righteousness???

Or the New Heart that God gives them? Making Righteousness a gift as well...
Exactly!

No it is not. The Greek word doesn't mean to appoint or ordain. It means to line up in order. And the voice is either middle or passive, depending on the context.

We know from the text that Luke used the word in the middle voice, meaning they lined themselves up to hear the Word.

v.44 - On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.

This verse demonstrates the eagerness of the people (including Gentiles) to hear what Paul was preaching. So this verse shows that the Gentiles were lining up themselves in order to hear the Word.

But calvinists will reject this because it refutes their presumptions.

Why is FAITH listed as a fruit of the Spirit, if its NOT a gift of God?

Why does God BOTHER giving men a New Heart if they don't need it? They can just use their heart of stone to believe unto Righteousness.


Its ok that you're totally confused on what the bible says. Most people are. But to try and argue against scripture because you prefer your IMAGINATION and WILL is comical.

Sounds like "you can do nothing without me".

Which is Scripture.

Did King Agrippa understand the scriptures? Did he have the Holy Spirit? Was he saved?

FreeGrace2 said:
Right, and that is the point.

We DON'T "trust in ourselves for faith". We trust IN Jesus Christ for salvation. What's wrong with that?

Ro 10:10 SAYS that man believes from the heart. That is where we believe from.

Where does your belief come from?

It is really amazing to see how much hostility you have for Rom 10:10. Why is that?
All spiritual gifts are given to those who are ALREADY saved. So you can quit the claim that God gives faith to save people.

Wrong conclusion. Of course all men need one. And God gives a "new heart" to those who have believed. It's part of regeneration.

Except there is NOTHING in Ezek 36 that shows that God gives a new heart of flesh SO THAT THEY CAN BELIEVE. That is just your PRESUMPTION. But the Bible doesn't ever say that regeneration precedes salvation. And Eph 2:5 and 8 prove the opposite.

Both regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH. Faith comes first. Get used to it.

You should quit embarrassing yourself with YOUR calvinist confusion.

Said the guy who continually argues against Scripture.

1. The Bible says that Jesus Christ died for everyone.
2. The Bible says that man believes from the heart.
3. The Bible says that believers are encouraged to remain in the faith (persevere), showing it isn't guaranteed.
4. The Bible says that election is about service, and never about salvation.

So go ahead and argue against what the Bible says.

Acts 13:48, does not say "who ordained" that's your stretch. What's is being commanded, ordered, set, appointed is that Paul brings the gospel not only to Jews but also the Gentiles. V.47. Reading the context, shew us that it is only through the preaching of Jesus we will have the forgiveness of sins to those who believe. Those who believe will be justified, synonymous to that of the saved or given eternal life. vv 38-39. By the way the word ordain as used in the Bible can be of God, can be of man or both. Here, you have a problem, not believing the scripture that men or the apostle can ordained and that is what I point. I am not pointing to you, men can deliver, remit sins or give eternal life. Perhaps, you lacked reading of the scripture and haven't read Acts 16:4 that apostles and the elders ordained decrees.
Acts 16:4
And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Thats contrary to scripture.