My veiw on evil.

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2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#41
love to see you sharing and not speaking down to people , sincerely it’s much easier to hear what you are saying
I'm being consistent as I have always been. What you're not understanding is that I have been defending myself to those who were talking down to me. For some reason, though . . . you miss that. Mii will tell you that this is how I greet him/her . . . because Mii is actually kind and friendly. I get along well with those who choose to be kind and friendly.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#42
Won't Jesus need to have delivered us from the knowledge of good and evil which led to death (separation from God)?
But not until after repentance and belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Some repent many times but never accept the Lord but only the Savior. Hyper grace.

Some believe that God exists but it isn't “believe that” that matters. Even the demons believe. It is “believe in” that matters. Faith is the combination relationship between the Spirit of God and of human.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#43
That's a rather amazing question. In my studies, I don't recall there being a clear Biblical answer for this, but because Paul tells us that God is fair and just, I would say that if they were born from the same parents, the answer would be no. That said, I am a mere human, so I don't actually know.

Consider this, though:

Ecclesiastes 6:3-5 NIV - "A man may have a hundred children and live many years; yet no matter how long he lives, if he cannot enjoy his prosperity and does not receive proper burial, I say that a stillborn child is better off than he. It comes without meaning, it departs in darkness, and in darkness its name is shrouded. Though it never saw the sun or knew anything, it has more rest than does that man . . ."

It's an interesting idea . . . that if an infant, or fetus is better off than an adult, this certainly must be indicative of their sense of Eternity. This passage should lend a certain amount of peace to those who have offered abortion in error. In my estimation, the Lord takes care of His infants. Remember the verse that went undiscussed about the sparrows? Would it not be the same for unborn, stillborn, or babies that die of cancer?

Matthew 10:29 NKJV - "Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will."
Luke 18:15-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
15 Some people were even bringing infants to Him so He might touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus, however, invited them: “Let the little children come to Me, and don’t stop them, because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I assure you: Whoever does not welcome the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

The unconditional election goes right out the door dealing with children as a great example to prove this false.

Because the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Such as these is directed to Children.


Children- part of speech- noun
Case-accusative
gender- neuter
number- plural

Such- part of speech- Demonstrative Pronoun are the same pronouns used for demonstrative adjectives - this, that, these and those. The difference is in the sentence structure.
  • The demonstrative pronoun takes the place of the noun phrase.
  • The demonstrative adjective is always followed by a noun. Kingdom being the noun that follows.
Case-Genitive is the grammatical case that marks a noun as modifying another noun. It often marks a noun as being the possessor of another noun.

Children being the possessor noun.
Gender-Neuter
Number- Plural

Both Children and such are Neuter and plural meaning they represent each other.

Children belong to Heaven as for the reason why we must become fully dependent on God as Children are to their parents. Children are born fallen but we see why they are innocent in the eyes of God in verse


Romans 5
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Romans 7:7
.....Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law
Romans 8-9

For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

Children can not comprehend the law and therefore sin is not held to account and they are alive apart from the law. Proving everyone is chosen to be saved from birth.

Nowhere in scripture does it say God adds a name to the book of life but only can take away a name.


Predestination is false in the sense that we are wwithout the will to choose.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#44
I'm being consistent as I have always been. What you're not understanding is that I have been defending myself to those who were talking down to me. For some reason, though . . . you miss that. Mii will tell you that this is how I greet him/her . . . because Mii is actually kind and friendly. I get along well with those who choose to be kind and friendly.
yeah I was just saying lately you seem to be operating in a better spirit. Wasn’t meaning to offend you .

God bless
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#45
Won't Jesus need to have delivered us from the knowledge of good and evil which led to death (separation from God)?
Knowledge of good and evil, what is evil is sin, that is, rebelling against God. That one particular tree was off limit for Adam because with great power comes great responsibility. Adam and Eve at that time were like little kids, they just couldn't handle it.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#46
The Bible seems clear that nothing is outside of His control. What seems clear to me from cover to cover as the single most important thing that we would recognize . . . is the Power of God. In an Excel spreadsheet, I have 150 entires under the category of "Power of God" alone. This does not include other categories, such as "Controlled," "Mind Control," "Controlled by the Spirit," and several others. My first pass through the Bible as I cataloged these things was absolutely fascinating.

I am utterly convinced that God allows all things that we do . . . and He doesn't have to. Check out what He did [for] king Abemelech:

Genesis 20:2-6 NET - "Abraham said about his wife Sarah, "She is my sister." So Abimelech, king of Gerar, sent for Sarah and took her. But God appeared to Abimelech in a dream at night and said to him, "You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken, for she is someone else's wife." Now Abimelech had not gone near her. He said, "Lord, would you really slaughter an innocent nation? Did Abraham not say to me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'He is my brother.' I have done this with a clear conscience and with innocent hands!" Then in the dream God replied to him, "Yes, I know that you have done this with a clear conscience. That is why I have kept you from sinning against me and why I did not allow you to touch her."

God is in control of ALL things.
Absolutely he is in control because according to his word "seeing the end from the beginning" it already has happened.
Every word, thought, deed.
Before the foundations of the earth.
If God were to rule minute by minute it would turn out the same but in genesis we read he rested on the 7th day from all his creation. All that God had created from genesis to revelation. On that day he gave it over to his son Jesus which not only created it but holds it all together.
All scripture points to him. All that was created was lost, stolen by satan and held for ramsom.
Jesus the redeemer, the great goel, was the only one who could open the seals in revelation.
He purchased it back with his blood.
We rest in the finished work of the Christ.
The work of the father was for all to beleve the son.
This is my beloved son hear him.
Jesus said all things have been given to me by the father.
It was no surprise that man would fall from God grace but being created in the image of God places God as the closest relative to man. Therefore jesus is the goel of mankind. Henceforth the story of boaz in the book of ruth is very critical to understand.
The promise of all scripture is to restore then for all to see the restoration is to witness that all the promises of God is true. Then all that is restored will pass away and a new heaven and earth is created.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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#47
yeah I was just saying lately you seem to be operating in a better spirit. Wasn’t meaning to offend you .

God bless
As said, I'm the same person each day. However, jaumej just spent the last two days laying into me like a new bed. Looking at Scripture, who were consistently offended? The Sadducees, Pharisees, and teachers of the law. And who were of the defensive? Those who were in a Right relationship with the Lord. Which side are "we" on? Are we the aggressor? Or, are we self-defensive asking for peace? I constantly call for peace and that the assault of words come to a swift end . . . this is why I try to walk away. Who will join me?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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#48
Absolutely he is in control because according to his word "seeing the end from the beginning" it already has happened.
I read your entire post and I hear what you're saying. However, this statement above . . . isn't the way that I read the Bible. Instead, I see a God who is in control of not only the way humans think and the things they do, but He holds control over animals . . . all living things. I see a God that makes things happen versus being a simple bystander that reports what has taken place. I see a God at work to fulfill a pre-written plan.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#49
I read your entire post and I hear what you're saying. However, this statement above . . . isn't the way that I read the Bible. Instead, I see a God who is in control of not only the way humans think and the things they do, but He holds control over animals . . . all living things. I see a God that makes things happen versus being a simple bystander that reports what has taken place. I see a God at work to fulfill a pre-written plan.
That is a God who lords over. Also as we see in genesis God gave dominion over the animals to adam.
All of human history has come to pass in the realm where God is. It is up to us to except it as the truth or not.
God is not a simple bystander by any means. What he has spoken shall be done. With or without are acceptance to the truth.
Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. The alpha and omega.
Everything is under time in which God created. He created the sun and moon and stars as his time frame. His feast and holy days and appointed times. Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever.
Jesus declares he was with Abraham to the Pharisees we also see Jesus writing letters to the churches in revelation.
Time of the gentiles to be fulfilled, time of sorrows. Ecclesiastic tells us about time.
The Lord instructs all of us to take note of our age.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#50
That is a God who lords over.
Ok. But all that I'm saying is that when I read the Bible, I see a God who is in Control. I can't help what I see and what I have cataloged in a spreadsheet. It is what it is.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#51
Why evil?

There is much suffering in the scriptures and there are those who was made into great nations. Somewhere in the balance of God's will, His all knowing, all seeing, being outside of time, (justice) in dealing with sin, and His sovereignty. We see historically and philosophically the results of mankind's free will to choose good or evil but yet in these choices God is still in control as He has predetermined the path through the choice of humanity to bring about everything within His will.

As Christians we are promised suffering.

Philippians 1:29
New International Version
29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him,

Just as darkness clashes with the light on this Earth, so will be the battle between good and evil. The forces behind the evil knows they are defeated but it is their very nature to pursue evil even unto their demise.

Even our Lord and Savior was considered homeless, understood hunger, thirst, pain, sorrow, temptation, and death. But yet evil could not overcome.

For the saved in the scriptures they looked forward to the day of death as they understood it was simply a change in location from life on Earth to life eternal with the Heavenly Father.

Why evil? I'm sure many have asked this lately. Evil exists because God is patient within the will of man. He is patient for the unbelievers because life on Earth is ALL the time they have to accept salvation.

2 Peter 3:9 ESV
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

But of course, it is not outside of God's character to intervene when evil becomes so ripe for judgement, God decides to reap what was sown. The patience for humanity has lasted 10000 to 6000 years. The patience for nations has lasted from weeks to centuries as kings, presidents, dictators all eventually met destruction. The patience for the individual can last a lifetime or end tomorrow for the unbeliever.

Ultimately, the patience for humanity will end as prophetically the end of times will judge as evil will become like the days of Noah and instead of a flood it will be by a series of judgements (Revelation).
My view on evil is that it encompasses anything that results from a spirit of rebellion against the Lordship of Christ.
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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#53
I'm being consistent as I have always been. What you're not undgerstanding is that I have been defending myself to those who were talking down to me. For some reason, though . . . you miss that. Mii will tell you that this is how I greet him/her . . . because Mii is actually kind and friendly. I get along well with those who choose to be kind and friendly.
Well thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Yeah I haven't seen you be condescending in any way on here and you seem to be "legitimate" with regard to your walk from what I've seen so far.

I am a male btw. I also saw that Pilgrimshope clarified later on which I think is solid. Everyone is affected in different ways.



I'm still thinking about the passage about Shimei. I did remember reading it ages ago when you brought it up but it read to me like David was allowing for the possibility and then later declaring it as so. The modifier is that he was restraining his men and so it causes additional pause. There are lots of other examples of nearly "deterministic" behavior (like Pharoah or Balaam) but I'm not them so it's hard to say for sure. It does seem to lean toward us not having "free will" but we do have freedoms within HIS will if that resonates.

Like a 6 year old child NOT being free to walk out of the house at midnight or use the playroom but they do have "elbow room" so to speak. You're free to pray at 12am or use the restroom or get some water or "think" but not much else. Or at least that's how it was for me...I didn't test any boundaries really.

That's how I'm understanding it at present and what's coming to mind. I also believed a lot of my life that you were free to choose how you interacted with his will. Either kicking and screaming or calmly walking hand in hand. Again, a parent/child analogy.

There are ofc other aspects of his will (regal, judge, GOD, etc.) but that's a discussion for another time for sure. The verse in Micah (6:8) I'm coupling with Luke 18:17 and the variations in Matthew and Mark that echo that concept.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#54
Well thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Yeah I haven't seen you be condescending in any way on here and you seem to be "legitimate" with regard to your walk from what I've seen so far.
Thank you for the encouraging words . . . I really appreciate it. While I could care less what people think of me, meaning that the weird things people say do not affect how I feel about myself, I often feel like not returning. All of the people that I place on the Ignore list last year . . . I removed each of them on a pre-chosen date so as to give them all another shot at being kind and peaceful with me. That's why all of a sudden I ran into persistent conflict. So, many have found their way back on the Ignore List and things will be calming down further still.

What I love about the Shimei story is that it reminds me so much of Christ as He was being led away. Even in David's younger days, he was patient with king Saul. David could have killed Saul so many times, but David knew that the Lord placed the king in that position. David was so respectful of what God had done, that even though Saul consistently sought his life, David remained faithful to Saul's family after Saul had died. Truly amazing.

1 Peter 2:21-23 NLT - "For God called you to do good, even if it means suffering, just as Christ suffered for you. He is your example, and you must follow in his steps. He never sinned, nor ever deceived anyone. He did not retaliate when he was insulted, nor threaten revenge when he suffered. He left his case in the hands of God, who always judges fairly."

Isn't it amazing that Jesus is the Son of David, yet it was David who was modeling for Christ how to behave? Or, we could say that David was modeling the future Christ. I am just mind-struck by how similar David's actions are to those of Jesus. And somewhere in all of this, the genealogy of Christ makes sense:

Matthew 1:1 KJV - "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."

As for not having free will, no one can say anything about Paul's teaching where he states that nearly all of Israel had been placed into a deep sleep (quoting Deutonomy and Isaiah):

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

How can we ignore this passage? These two verses are MAJOR clues as to what the entire Bible is about. There is a reason for this "Sleep." There are reasons for the Law that covered them like a "Guardian."

Galatians 3:24-25 NLT - "Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian."

By following the law, namely, offering sacrifices, the Jews were protected. Why would they need to be protected? Because of the "Veil of Moses." This story of the Veil shows us the problem that the Jews suffered from . . . all of the world, actually! The Veil shows us that when the Veil is lowered, this represents the Sinful Nature having removed, thus "we" can properly Believe, Submit, Obey, hold Confidence and ultimately, Share the Gospel. When the Veil was lowered, all of Israel could understand and make Holy and Righteous choices. But when the Veil was lifted back in place, they could no longer understand and thus continued in their disbelief. It is all just so unbelievable . . . what God has done.

2 Corinthians 3:14-15 NLT - "But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand."

So, free will. If we would only read out entire Bibles in a timeline, chronological order, we would recognize these things as a group. They are undeniable. I am just so enamored with the Power of God in how He controls the minds of humanity. What's incredible is that he can do this to an entire nation all at the same time. That, my friend . . . is Power!

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with your vision. Fortunately for you, the Grace of the Lord is sufficient . . . meaning, you are one of His Chosen . . . one of His Holy Elect.

I'm glad that you're here. :)
 
Sep 14, 2019
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#55
Knowledge of good and evil, what is evil is sin, that is, rebelling against God. That one particular tree was off limit for Adam because with great power comes great responsibility. Adam and Eve at that time were like little kids, they just couldn't handle it.
Is it righteous to be unclothed in God's most holy presence?
 
Sep 14, 2019
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#56
But not until after repentance and belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Some repent many times but never accept the Lord but only the Savior. Hyper grace.

Some believe that God exists but it isn't “believe that” that matters. Even the demons believe. It is “believe in” that matters. Faith is the combination relationship between the Spirit of God and of human.
Haven't all humans committed the same sin as Adam and Eve committed?
 
Sep 14, 2019
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#57
This is an interesting way of putting things. I suppose you could be right. Consitent with the them of the Bible, though, we are certainly Redeemed. But . . . Redeemed from what? You might appreciate the NLT translation of Galatians 3:13, for it is the only translation that words this passage in this way:

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

This is a clear explanation for the Purpose of Christ. Colossians 2:9-15 outlines the Work of how Jesus implements His Purpose. How are we Redeemed from the Curse? Through Circumcision of the Heart . . . this is the point of the Circumcision of Christ. Without the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ, there can be no Redemption from the Curse. As mentioned, all other translations state that the Law is the Curse. That defies Romans chapter five, which outlines the Adamic Curse, and it also defies the Tree of Life as described in Genesis 3:22-24. Eating from the Tree of Life [is] the Circumcision of Christ. They are one in the same. So, how is "Love Thy Neighbor" a Curse? It isn't. How is "Thou Shalt Not Kill" a Curse? It isn't. Therefore, it seems to "flow" with the core context of the entire Bible, which is that the Law of Moses exposed the Curse. The Law showed us exactly what sin was, for as Paul said, he wouldn't have known that coveting was wrong if it had not been for the Law telling him so.

Romans 7:7-8 NLT - "Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, "You must not covet." But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power."

But, but . . . when the Curse has been cut away from a person's now Regenerated Heart . . . does that knowledge disappear? No, it doesn't. Instead, Scripture states that we are transformed more and more to reflect the Glory of God's image. But again, this does not mean that we forget about our former ways. That knowledge always remains, which would explain why and how Paul and Peter could tell us to avoid our former ways and deeds of the "flesh."

Ephesians 4:31-32 NIV - "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."

And so change is the Effect of the Work of Christ, the Purpose for the arrival of Christ.
If it's not you but Christ lives in you, why do you need the knowledge of good and evil to crosscheck what Christ is doing in & through you?
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#58
Is it righteous to be unclothed in God's most holy presence?
ONLY when they had not sinned. As soon as they ate the fruit they lost their righteousness. And it was not really about any special component in that fruit, it was their act of disobedience.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#59
If it's not you but Christ lives in you, why do you need the knowledge of good and evil to crosscheck what Christ is doing in & through you?
I'm curious about your fascination with the knowledge of Good and Evil. The reason is is that your questions on this subject don't really make sense to me. What do you think is the knowledge of Good and Evil?