Doctrine of Unconditional Election

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where the election happens whoever hears and believes the gospel. Preached first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. The gospel is Gods free offer to all men some will hear and believe and respond , others won’t. They will look for ways to avoid it at all cost

when your talking about spirit your talking about this

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thats what we’re meant to “ compare “ things to , it why Paul said this

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is no salvstion or election but what Jesus set forth , Paul is a witness of the gospel not the originator he was telling us all to believe the gospel and be saved

“All you're trying to do is twist into something it doesn't say.”

you have identified the issue your dealing with , just misdirected it.

Rogerg is saying the gospel is not for all men, but only the elect.

He even disagreed with: Christ's shed blood is sufficient for all
but effective only for those who believe, coupled with John 3:16.

Yes I was following along there. The gospel is itself what elects us. And saves us if we don’t reject it. I’m not sure why we want to reject this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like this

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we should hear and believe what Jesus is saying that’s where we really find eternal security it’s just a matter of hearing and believing and letting God work out salvstion in us

I assume “ the elect” must not need Gods word but I’m not really understanding that part when it’s a promise of everlasting life from Jesus the Lord and savior of all men Who believe.

I think some interpret it to be saying “ unless your sinless your surely going to die “ but that isn’t what Jesus teaches in his word. That’s the law of Moses I think some think Jesus came and repeated Moses words or something

johns gospel can teach us that we can fully rely on Jesus and also hear his word because it’s the truth of Gods eternal
And unchanging word of life whoever is willing to hear and believe like Jesus said are passed from condemnation and death already and given eternal
Life in him

his word is powerful just like when he spoke creation into existence he speaks life into Our minds and hearts creating faith that leads us home

“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All we need to do if fully trust Jesus come and hear and learn from his word and trust him to do what he said he will do for those who hear and believe his truth.

he’s not going to cast us away if we do that ever he’s always going to be right there with us to fulfill his promises of life but the key is we have to hear his promises and his words are promises unable to fail according to what he himself said

It's Calvinism. The gist of which is: God will punish forever after those who reject
His offer, even those to whom it was never offered, nor meant to be offered.

Calvinism teaches that there are men created for the sole purpose of damnation.

Ergo, God's offer is not meant for them; they cannot receive it, nor benefit from it.

I Agree but this sounds like it goes even beyond calvanism , like a hyper calvanism or something. Hopefully God will straighten all our paths and set us free to walk upright in him like he said he will I don’t believe he’s capable of lying but if we don’t hear what he said we can’t possibly believe

“that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:18‬ ‭

Jesus certainly sets a sure hope before us if we hear and accept what he said that we may lay hold of it according to faith

the "saved" refers to the redemption of the purchased possession (the elect) at the end of time. Salvation
has two parts to it: positionally/spiritually during our lives and 2) the final receiving/manifestation of it at the day of the Lord

[1Co 5:5 KJV]
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

[Luk 21:28 KJV] 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Being saved by our hearing and believing puts Christ's offering at naught and, were it possible, would make ourselves our own savior. However, Christ alone is the Saviour and we are not - He must be the one who saves. Someone is elected because, and only because, God chose to write their name into the Book of the life form the foundation of the world.

[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[Rev 21:27 KJV]
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

No one can hear or believe the Gospel left to themselves. Doing so is a gift from God.

[Phl 1:29 KJV]
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Belief in Christ is given as a gift

[Jhn 6:44, 65 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Godliness:

[2Pe 1:3 KJV] 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

God's divine power alone is that which gives to us all things that pertain to life and godliness.


Jesus set-forth that He alone is the Saviour, we are not.

[Tit 1:4 KJV]
4 To Titus, [mine] own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Faith, grace, mercy, and peace come to us from God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Actually, not Rogerg, the Bible. It says that salvation is only to the elect. But the gospel is for everyone. To the one, life unto life, to other unto death

[2Co 2:14-16 KJV]
14 Now thanks [be] unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

So, I've asked this question before and no one's been able to give a good answer to it. According to your belief
of how salvation occurs, such that someone has to hear and generate faith in the Gospel of themselves, then what then happens
to those who are unable to comprehend it - the sick, infirm, too young, too old, living somewhere a Bible isn't available etc? According
to you all they can't be saved since they can't hear? Is that correct?

“5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”

this is what Paul said about a man who was sinning openly in church , he obviously was walking in the flesh still Paul was hoping by casting him out he would repent and be saved.

“but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.”

this is the lambs book of life

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“No one can hear or believe the Gospel left to themselves. Doing so is a gift from God.”

yeah how does that relate to what I’m saying ? We have to believe the gospel Christians can choose to start learning the gospel and believe it or remain in a state of rejection is my point.

false doctrine leads many astray from the truth though it’s not just set in stone
It matters if you accept the gospel or a bunch of distortions saying this is the gospel

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point is the truth is what Jesus said it is it’s why he was born

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

false teachers will be trying to get us to turn away from the truth and not acknolwedge it because it’s how one escapes from the devils grasp on them

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s why we’re supposed to preach the gospel that’s written in his name , because his word is that power to convert one trapped in satans snare , and set them free when they hear and acknowledge it.

it’s silly to think we’re saved no
Matter what we do , and we’re condemned no matter what we do . If that’s the case why even preach the gospel at all why not just destroy people and save others ? Because

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9

The truth said

“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is not forcing anyone to be damned or anyone to be saved he’s offered life and warned of death like he has since Adam the choice becomes the person who hears. Do I accepting as the truth ? Or do I explain that it’s not and reject it and follow the Joseph prince or Paul Ellis ways of “ grace” that explains its not for you to accept and believe the gospel ?

it was not Gods Will that Adam ate the fruit he warned him of the consequence , it wasn’t Gods Will that osrael defile those covenant and fulfill the cirses he set before them and said to them “
Choose life “ it isn’t Gods Will for any man or woman to hear the gospel and reject it, offering life instead to all who are presently bound to sin and death he’s offered us salvation from it

all Man is doomed unless they hear and believe

The gospel is about saving them from thier destination

“wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:2-5‬ ‭

the gospel is about converting sinners to repentance and life. Saving them from what’s coming to all Mankind . The only thing that can do that is to hear and acknowledge the gospel , the word of Christ , the truth the elect are those who hear and believe the gospel.

to explain its not within thier dapability to hear and believe is leading believers in the wrong direction and giving them a way to justify rejecting the gospel

“So, I've asked this question before and no one's been able to give a good answer to it. According to your belief
of how salvation occurs, such that someone has to hear and generate faith in the Gospel”

no hearing the gospel ( allowing it to be what you accept as true ) generates faith it’s a gift not of us it’s the power of Gods word that creates faith in us that’s why we have to hear it and accept it as truth


“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

think about the Bible , everything God has done he just speaks it forth and it then comes to Pass. That’s how salvstion through faith works and why it’s not of us , there’s no other way to have faith. It to allow the word of God into our heart we can’t save ourself your right , we can acknowledge the truth and power of Gods word though.

The reason people don’t here it is this reason

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

like Adam after he sinned thier sin has them hiding and ashamed of what they’ve done. That’s why the law can’t help us it does this

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel Jesus preached isn’t that it’s the opposite it’s a word that is remitting our sins , forgiving us , offering us life if we believe , coming to sinners and inviting them into eternal Life teaching them the truth of our great and merciful God that’s The word we need to hear not Moses law telling us you sinned now you must die and be accursed

but the word offering repentance and remission of sins to those who had been sinners

if we preach the gospel it’s true that many won’t believe , but many will believe also. A we really need to do is believe the gospel and hope others do also we can’t make people believe but they can choose when they hear it . Our place is to share the truth and let God sort out the rest and never avoid it

there was a time I didn’t believe the words of Christ but as I heard what he was saying why wouldn’t I begin to accept it ? Every person is in that state we’re all Lost up front but all can be saved

it’s why the gospel Is preached as the witness until the end it’s salvstion for any who hear and believe but if we don’t get real and share it no one can believe

remember Paul didn’t believe at first either he rejected it and went about to destroy the church but he heard eventually

This refers to all the Sheep/Elect

The elect will be given Faith, the non elect will not be given faith.

Could you kindly direct me then?

Maybe I can direct you a bit here.

The gospel is the good news that the GRACE of God offers to everyone. Titus 2:11

Election is from God Himself.

Again, it is God Himself who saves. "God is pleased...to save those who believe". 1 Cor 15:23

Several reasons the gospel is rejected:
1. people not interested. Agnostics
2. people don't believe in God. Atheists

First order of business is to clear up your misunderstanding of what faith is. Calvinists repeatedly use the word "generate" in relation to faith, as if a person has to do something in order to have faith. Couldn't be further from reality.

Just think of having a thought yourself. Did you have to "generate" that thought, or what?

Believing in Jesus is simply trusting who He is and what He did on the cross for us.

Now, think about someone you trust in your family, group of friends, etc. Did you have to "generate" that trust in them, or what?

Do you see where I'm going with this? We HAVE thoughts. We don't "generate" thoughts. So please stop using this silly word.

Now, for answers:

For those UNABLE to comprehend, because Jesus Christ died for all/everyone, they are covered. Because those UNABLE to comprehend are NOT ACCOUNTABLE for that reason.

However, for those living where a Bible isn't available, they ARE accountable because the Bible says so.

Rom 1:19-21
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Being "without excuse" means being accountable.

Now, I know this isn't the gospel. However, the passage is clear that God has revealed His very existence and power and attributes (v.20) to EVERYONE. This alone makes then accountable and without excuse.

Those who have "listened and learned from the Father" per John 6:45 will come to Jesus. iow, by realizing from creation that there is a Creator God, one is accountable to seek Him, just as Cornelius did in Acts 10.

Also, consider Acts 17:26,27
26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

v.26 states that God created mankind from Adam. And He placed every human WHEN and WHERE they are.

Why did He do this? v.27 tells us. "So that they would seek Him and reach out for Him" (like Cornelius did).

This is why no man has an excuse.

No, that is not correct. If you read and comprehend the verses I've shared here, it should be obvious to you WHY no one has any excuse.

rogerg said:
So, I've asked this question before and no one's been able to give a good answer to it. According to your belief
of how salvation occurs, such that someone has to hear and generate faith in the Gospel of themselves...
Only Calvinists say that, in order to mock how people believe.

The question to Calvinists is this: how do YOU "generate" thoughts? And see them squirm.

John 12:32 ►

New International Version
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
Standard talking point of the Calvinists.

To them, EVERY use of "all" can ONLY MEAN "the elect". Even though there is NOTHING in the context that supports such a poor exegesis.
It is just eisegesis instead. Forcing their own opinion into the verse.

Please provide a verse that supports your opinion here.