Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Yes that is what the man Paul says, but it is not what the Second Person of the Trinity, Our Lord and God Jesus said. Arthurfleminger has already pointed this out. In Matthew's Judgement of Nations Cha 25 we read:

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
I guess I am a heretic because I believe these words of Our Divine Lord and Savior that the righteous (who apparently have done good works) will go into life eternal. I don't see where Our Divine Lord, God, and Savior mentions that faith was part of the requirement?
Depends on how you understand these terms; food and drink, sickness and prison?

John 6:35
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty.

So what was Jesus really talking about in Matthew 25?
 

Abe1496

New member
May 14, 2022
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So what was Jesus really talking about in Matthew 25?
Yes. That was my question. How do you understand Matthew 25: 31-46. Does this passage indicate that the righteous will be saved by their good works?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Do you realize that satan was the first 'new ager'?

(Gen 3:5) "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

He lied and mankind died.
Not sure if anyone responded to this (the thread opened up for me on this page :)).

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil.
And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever....”


The lie Satan told was that they would not surely die.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Yes. That was my question. How do you understand Matthew 25: 31-46. Does this passage indicate that the righteous will be saved by their good works?
It depends on the way that you understand what Jesus said. There are two versions of Matthew 25:31-46.

One is the plain reading, feed a poor person and go straight to heaven. may not even need Jesus by the way.

The second way is a spiritual way of understanding the text (an interpretation).

Water is the Holy Spirit, real food is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Prison represents people imprisoned by their addictions, lusts, passions, etc.

I favor the second way of understanding the text.
 
Oct 6, 2021
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You literally wrote that Christ loves the slaves of sin so much that He died for them, and then you turn around and say if you can’t forgive someone then you are not saved. Do you see the oxymoronic nature of your statements?
Actually, I don't.
But, I can see how it can be misconstrued as such if you are not founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ.


I watched a documentary about David Berkowitz, aka, Son of Sam. 40+ years after his crimes, his victims’ families are still filled with hatred, rage and a desire to see him suffer forever. I thank God I have not been put in a situation, at least as of yet, where I need to forgive on that level.
I've saw a similar documentary where a Christian woman waited impatiently for 20+ years, for a man who killed her son to be executed. She wouldn't forgive him and the hatred tore the family apart. Her husband divorced her and her family wanted nothing to do with her. Then, about a month before the execution, the condemned man, who was also a Christian wanted her to forgive him. Begrudgingly, she did, and immediately after she did, the hate disappeared. She went and visited the man everyday until his execution. She even petitioned the Governor to stop the execution. .
Oh..BTW, that oxymoronic teaching came from Jesus Christ.
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
(Matthew 6:15)
 
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You seem confused.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.
There is no question that we are only saved by the grace of Jesus Christ.
.
There it is, we define Grace differently. I define Grace as being under Gods protection, because God loves you.
What is your definition?
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Oh..BTW, that oxymoronic teaching came from Jesus Christ.
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
(Matthew 6:15)
This has nothing to do with Salvation , because we are saved once and for all...
This I believe is if we are in sin ourself , and someone has sinned against us , our sin also will not be forgiven...
I could be wrong...
 
Oct 6, 2021
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This has nothing to do with Salvation , because we are saved once and for all...
This I believe is if we are in sin ourself , and someone has sinned against us , our sin also will not be forgiven...
I could be wrong...
I could argue...but what's the point when the Holy Spirit will prove what I say.
Get on your knees before God, confess your sins to God, and ask him to forgive you.
If all your sins have been forgiven before the prayer, you should feel no difference when you sin.
But if you are acutely aware of sin after the prayer, feeling guilt when you sin, guilt not there before the prayer..your sins were not forgiven, until you confessed them before God.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I could argue...but what's the point when the Holy Spirit will prove what I say.
Get on your knees before God, confess your sins to God, and ask him to forgive you.
If all your sins have been forgiven before the prayer, you should feel no difference when you sin.
But if you are acutely aware of sin after the prayer, feeling guilt when you sin, guilt not there before the prayer..your sins were not forgiven, until you confessed them before God.
Not too sure how to take your post...
I as I type am not in any known sin , but if I am , the Holy Spirit would show me the error of my ways...
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
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Oh..BTW, that oxymoronic teaching came from Jesus Christ.
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
(Matthew 6:15)
We are saved by GRACE through faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, not faith plus some kind of caveat. Adding a caveat eliminates GRACE.

When one puts their faith in Christ they become a new creation, ie, instant justification. Sanctification is a process, thus forgiving others will occur naturally, but not always instantly or even perfectly. But God’s GRACE remains and is sufficient nonetheless.

Here’s another thing to remember; when a person forgives someone, the forgiver benefits more than the forgiven because the forgiver is set free rather than enduring a self-imposed prison of hatred and despair. It’s safe to say Jesus knows this and why He teaches this.
 

Snacks

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Feb 10, 2022
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I define Grace as being under Gods protection, because God loves you.
Grace: The free and unmerited favor of God as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.
 
Oct 6, 2021
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Not too sure how to take your post...
I as I type am not in any known sin , but if I am , the Holy Spirit would show me the error of my ways...
Well that's great news!!
Many folks, because of what they are taught in church, don't understand the Renewing of the spirit Involves the confession of sin.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is —his good, pleasing and perfect will.
(Romans 12:2)


So I was merely sending you in that direction. But since you have been born of God, there shouldn't be any sin to be confessed.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither is he that loveth not his brother.
(1 John 3:9-10)
 

Rosemaryx

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May 3, 2017
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Well that's great news!!
Many folks, because of what they are taught in church, don't understand the Renewing of the spirit Involves the confession of sin.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is —his good, pleasing and perfect will.
(Romans 12:2)


So I was merely sending you in that direction. But since you have been born of God, there shouldn't be any sin to be confessed.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither is he that loveth not his brother.
(1 John 3:9-10)
Well we are not sinless because of our human nature that still clings to us while on this earth , but yes , we walk as the Spirit leads us , and if we do sin , we confess , and carry on running our race...
 
Oct 6, 2021
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We are saved by GRACE through faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, not faith plus some kind of caveat. Adding a caveat eliminates GRACE.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
(Ephesians 2:8)
Do You see faith as a Caveat too?

When one puts their faith in Christ they become a new creation, ie, instant justification. Sanctification is a process, thus forgiving others will occur naturally, but not always instantly or even perfectly. But God’s GRACE remains and is sufficient nonetheless.

Here’s another thing to remember; when a person forgives someone, the forgiver benefits more than the forgiven because the forgiver is set free rather than enduring a self-imposed prison of hatred and despair. It’s safe to say Jesus knows this and why He teaches this.
I agree with whats in the bold type.
Well we are not sinless because of our human nature that still clings to us while on this earth , but yes , we walk as the Spirit leads us , and if we do sin , we confess , and carry on running our race...
True...But the Bible teaches, those who are born of God do not sin.
 

arthurfleminger

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Aug 18, 2021
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Because of the doctrine, Sola Fide/Faith Alone, many churches/assemblies will not teach other parts of Scripture that bring 'faith alone' into question. One thing needs to be made clear is that you will never see the words 'faith alone' in the Old or New Testament, It's not there. Faith alone is a man made tradition dating back to the 17th century. You can easily investigate this on line.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I agree with whats in the bold type.


True...But the Bible teaches, those who are born of God do not sin.
1 John 2;1
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.