Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

... please ... think ... if you believe the gifts of prophecy and discerning of gifts are available to the body of Christ today what possible logic spiritual or otherwise would there be in believing that ANY of the gifts would be withdrawn?

You say they can be faked

so can prophecy [whether forthtelling or foretelling kinds] can be faked. ... there are fake preachers
so can discerning of spirits be faked ... it can be turned into murderous criticism, slander.

You making no sense bro

Let me remind you of something, people are very easy to be led astray from the purity of God's word, it could happen to you and it could happen to me. Let's not kid ourselves, we can fall.

We see the Galatians were bewitched into accepting a gospel of devils, Paul had to sadly bemoan at the end of his ministry that all Asia had turned away from him.

Then we look at how these things developed in the dark ages and the medieval period. The whole church was caught up in cultism the Roman Catholic cult. The church was united in believing the most horrid doctrines and it's no good saying they were not the church for they were. At least the church was somewhere imbedded therein.

So the WHOLE church can be wrong and united in falsehood.

In the 12th century the light began to flicker with Wycliffe and later Huss and in the 15th century what had been a faint glimmer became a blazing torch with Luther and the history of the reformation in the 15th 16th and 17th centuries will teach you there was plenty of fanaticism around.

But it hasn't stopped the light from becoming ever more clear and bright with the great awakening if the 18th century.

But the church consistently and continually falls back into darkness and deadness. And that is the choice each generation has to face whether to move on with the Lord, to cling on to the light or to fall back into darkness and dead religion.

This is warfare. While christians sleep the devil seems to lie doggo, but he is working, When the church is alive the devil becomes very active too.

You are looking at what the devil is doing instead of what God is doing. But God is doing ....

Good point.
---
Awakenings & reformations started..
- with those (few) who were willing to go through..
- criticisms, despisement, etc.
- in Christian history.
---
I am working on the book project.
- One part of the book is on..
- 'Spiritual Awakenings/Revivals & Reformations in Christian History'

May God grant you insight

Well, I have at least normal intelligence; enough intelligence to know not to waste a weekend on Bigfoot.

Laugh on then, no sweat off my back.

1 Cor 14:5 "prophecy" is defined in 1 Cor 14:3 as "edification and exhortation and comfort".
Nothing about future-telling there whatsoever.

No problem buddy. Quite frankly it's not worth wasting a weekend......when there is preaching to do. Nevertheless I am absolutely correct in my assessment. Bigfoot are as real as bluejays, bears and bighorn sheep.

Evmur.......do you really want me to quote Scripture to support that position? Seriously?

The fact is that the Bible indicates that both freewill and foreordination/election are factors as regards salvation in Christ Jesus. Precisely how this works nobody knows. No mortal, fallen man that's for sure.

Paradox resolution occurs in higher dimensional space BTW. And since God exist in the highest dimensional space He suffers no paradoxes He has no dilemmas and He enjoys maximum degrees of freedom........concomitant with total holiness and total righteousness.

Have a blessed weekend buddy.

I never stated nor do I believe that the gifts have been withdrawn. Let me say that, according to direct observation they are probably at a very low ebb. Very very low ebb.

However I do believe that future-telling prophecy gifts (ie Agabus), which definitely existed in the early Church HAVE been withdrawn.

Furthermore the book of Revelation makes it very clear that God is going to once again endow certain persons with spiritual gifts whereby they should do signs and wonders.

You might as well include tongues and the gift of supernatural knowledge, along with prophecy. Those were the three gifts which Paul said would "cease". According to Church history, they did cease. But there are at least another 15 gifts which have not ceased. Why is no one talking about them? Then there is the greatest spiritual gift -- agape love -- which does not even get mentioned as a gift of the Holy Spirit. When people focus on gifts -- instead of simply using them -- they take their focus off the Giver.

I do not hold the Sword, my King Jesus is the only one able to wield it.

God is angry with the wicked shameful generations every single day. He will whet his Sword, he has bent his bow and aimed it.

The mass would be said Latin. They could be saying anything and most would not know the difference...

Whoa whoa, all Christians were united? No. Christians were being hunted
down and murdered. By those who claimed to be of "the true church."

Is it possible that you are conflating gifts of the Spirit and fruits of the Spirit?

Are there any examples of prophecies in the NT, other than what Jesus and Agabus prophesied, and some of the NT writings like Revelation? Since prophecy is one of the spiritual gifts listed in 1 Cor. 12 along with other gifts that are obviously miraculous, I take it from the usage of the term that it's referring to something miraculous. From Paul's description of prophesying to an outsider, it seems more like a word of knowledge, since it is telling everything in the man's heart and life, and the conclusion is "God is surely among you." In that case, the prophet is a seer (like John 4). It's a description of a miraculous event. OT prophetic writings were miraculous in the sense that it was not previously known, and they wrote what God told them or what was revealed to them. It's the same with the NT writings, especially Paul's writings, since he said he learned his gospel directly from God.

On the other hand, the idea of forthtelling today is not a miraculous event, because the scripture is learned and spoken, and God uses that preaching to move on peoples' hearts by His grace and power. I'd call that a providential event, because there is not any new revelation or direct communication from God. The scripture is what we know and speak, and faith in peoples' hearts is generated by that.

I think there is a general confusion about the gifts of the Spirit, including prophecy. I think that such confusion and lack of clarity on what prophecy is, is what many false teachers and false prophets are taking advantage of. "God told me...," "The Lord has revealed to me...," "Thus saith the Lord...," "I got this revelation...," and such claims as that are hindering people from the truth that is revealed in scripture, since most of those so-called revelations are false. And I also think they are so successful because people are generally lazy and want a shortcut to "special knowledge" in which they think they will be closer to God and more in control of spiritual power. So they end up following the self-proclaimed prophet and believe whatever they say. I came from that culture, so I think what I'm saying is true about many of them.

So I take it that the term "prophecy" covers several definitions and possibly levels of supernatural activity, such as I described. Certainly edification, exhortation and comfort may be served by mere natural words, by quoting of scripture, by an apt word at the right time, by providential prompting, or even by an obvious miraculous event.

God isn't

YOU need to be brought out of THAT

God's anger was expended upon Christ on the cross. In this epoch God's grace is active. Acts of divine judgement are rare in this period of grace. Now the wheat and tares grow together .... at the end of the age will come the great sorting out and dividing between the wise and the foolish.

... according to church history huh? church history is a 1, 000 years of Roman Catholicism ... mebbe that's the times when the gifts were not manifest

... oh right ... nobody knows

.... thought you did not believe in laughter