Do not teach my people to fly to save their souls

........um...............hmm...........

Guess the Apostle Paul was smoking some serious stuff when he wrote his Epistles, huh............hmm...........What is that about?

As we continue this I want you all to know that I truly believe what I am posting, ant that I post it with the love of Christ in my heart for all. Do I want to change minds and hearts yes I do; do I want to do it so I can say I told you so? NO

Lets pick this back up in 1st Corinthians 15:50 Verses copied from Biblehub.com

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.



Neither corruption: Strong's Corruption #5346 Greek means to decay, ruin,destroy,or perish

Inherit incorruption Strong's # 861 Greek unending existence, incorruption immortal.

Flesh and blood body: that is our fiscal body, the shell that God gave us to use while here on earth. It cannot enter the kingdom of God.



Verse 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,



Paul says he is going to show us a mystery; We shall not all sleep: die but we will all be changed. All that means everyone of us the good, the bad and the ugly.



Verse 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.

A twinkling is even faster than a blink of an eye. When is this going to happen? At the last trump; What trump is that; the furthest one out. The 7th trump That is when Jesus shall return. Not before. That trump will sound , and the dead shall rise; Who are the dead? Remember flesh and blood can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. They are the dead in Christ those that have not excepted Jesus Christ as savior those that have chosen to follow Satan. They are spiritually dead. They will rise with a spiritual body but a mortal soil. Mortal meaning libel to die. No one not Judas, not the people that cried crucify Him. There is only one entity that has been sentenced to death by God and that is Satan. Everyone else that has ever walked the face of the earth must stand before. Some of us should look forward to that day because we will be judged faithful and receive our rewords others will hear those words depart from Me I never knew you. But we will all be in a spiritual body because flesh and blood cannot inter into the kingdom of God.

There will be no one coming up out of a grave, or an ash box, or out of the sea or any other place.

What does God say to us in Ecclesiastes 12:6&7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. When we die: When the silver cord is loosed . . . God who gave it. What does it say the body returns to the dust from which it came and the Spirit again good, bad, or ugly all return to God who gave it.

There is a big fight going on in this country(USA) over abortion and when does life begin. The day Mary was impregnated by God (The Holy Spirit) she ran to her cousin Elizabeth.

Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: Mary entered the room and John 6 months in his mothers womb know the baby in Mary's womb had been there long enough for her to run to Elisabeth house. When the egg is fertilized live begins God puts a spirit in that womb in that embryo.


Verse 53.For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



I thank Paul is making this clear that when Jesus comes at the 7th trump in a moment quicker than you can snap your fingers all that are left here on earth those that truly believe in Jesus and everyone else will be changed into a spirit body and some will have a mortal soul that is a soul that is libel to die and an immortal soul that will live forever. Where with God and the Lord Jesus Christ in the eternal kingdom Heaven.

As we continue this I want you all to know that I truly believe what I am posting, ant that I post it with the love of Christ in my heart for all. Do I want to change minds and hearts yes I do; do I want to do it so I can say I told you so? NO

Lets pick this back up in 1st Corinthians 15:50 Verses copied from Biblehub.com

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.



Neither corruption: Strong's Corruption #5346 Greek means to decay, ruin,destroy,or perish

Inherit incorruption Strong's # 861 Greek unending existence, incorruption immortal.

Flesh and blood body: that is our fiscal body, the shell that God gave us to use while here on earth. It cannot enter the kingdom of God.



Verse 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,



Paul says he is going to show us a mystery; We shall not all sleep: die but we will all be changed. All that means everyone of us the good, the bad and the ugly.



Verse 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.

A twinkling is even faster than a blink of an eye. When is this going to happen? At the last trump; What trump is that; the furthest one out. The 7th trump That is when Jesus shall return. Not before. That trump will sound , and the dead shall rise; Who are the dead? Remember flesh and blood can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. They are the dead in Christ those that have not excepted Jesus Christ as savior those that have chosen to follow Satan. They are spiritually dead. They will rise with a spiritual body but a mortal soil. Mortal meaning libel to die. No one not Judas, not the people that cried crucify Him. There is only one entity that has been sentenced to death by God and that is Satan. Everyone else that has ever walked the face of the earth must stand before. Some of us should look forward to that day because we will be judged faithful and receive our rewords others will hear those words depart from Me I never knew you. But we will all be in a spiritual body because flesh and blood cannot inter into the kingdom of God.

There will be no one coming up out of a grave, or an ash box, or out of the sea or any other place.

What does God say to us in Ecclesiastes 12:6&7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. When we die: When the silver cord is loosed . . . God who gave it. What does it say the body returns to the dust from which it came and the Spirit again good, bad, or ugly all return to God who gave it.

There is a big fight going on in this country(USA) over abortion and when does life begin. The day Mary was impregnated by God (The Holy Spirit) she ran to her cousin Elizabeth.

Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: Mary entered the room and John 6 months in his mothers womb know the baby in Mary's womb had been there long enough for her to run to Elisabeth house. When the egg is fertilized live begins God puts a spirit in that womb in that embryo.


Verse 53.For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



I thank Paul is making this clear that when Jesus comes at the 7th trump in a moment quicker than you can snap your fingers all that are left here on earth those that truly believe in Jesus and everyone else will be changed into a spirit body and some will have a mortal soul that is a soul that is libel to die and an immortal soul that will live forever. Where with God and the Lord Jesus Christ in the eternal kingdom Heaven.

2nd Thessalonians 2

New Living Translation
Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him.
English Standard Version
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
Berean Study Bible
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers,
King James Bible
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,



What is the subject here? The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering back to Him.

Verse 2.New International Version
not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
English Standard Version
not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
Berean Study Bible
not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come.
King James Bible
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


Do not be shaken or alarmed or afraid by spirit: this would be a false spirit, false word, not even a letter from us. This would be a reference to the first letter Paul wrote to them concerning the dead and how we are to grieve and how we are to comfort one another.



Verse 3.

New International Version
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Berean Study Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.
King James Bible
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



What does this say? Let no man deceive you in any way. Did that say let no one but my pastor, or my church doctrine deceive me. No man means no man. That day shall not come until the apostasy, the falling away comes first. Then something else has to happen the man of sin, the son of perdition has to be revealed, we have to know just who that is; there is only one that has been sentenced to death; He has been sentenced but that sentence has not been cared and will not until all has been accomplished. If you have not picked on who this is it is Satan the son of perdition.


Verse 4.

New International Version
He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
English Standard Version
who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
Berean Study Bible
He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
King James Bible
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
So here is Satan He has come to Jerusalem sets himself up in the temple of God proclaiming to be God.



Verse 5.

New International Version
Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
English Standard Version
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

Berean Study Bible
Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you?
King James Bible
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
I “Paul” told you all these things when I was with you. How is it that you have forgotten them.

How many times does this have to be said? The 7th trumpet of Revelation proclaims God's wrath and the damnation of those who are ungodly and unbelieving and wicked. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Resurrection/Rapture. The "trump of God" or "the last trump" is a trumpet to summon the saints to Christ and to Heaven. A totally different trumpet for a totally different purpose.

Considering the verse you provided does not place a chronological order between Jesus coming again and the great tribulation, your conclusion does not follow from this verse alone.

Logically, it is not solid proof of pretrib rapture therefore your followup statement "you do not know how to discern Bible truth" speaks more against you than it does your detractors.

It can be inferred that the manner that you are discerning Biblical truth is not logical.

An important question to ask here is what leads you to believe that the 7th angel trump is the last trump?

God's voice is described as being like the sound of a trump.

I agree that the last trump is at least at or after the 7th angel trump. Otherwise if it came before the 7th it wouldn't be the "last" trump. There are many that place "the last trump" somewhere between Rev 19-20, and especially Rev 20:5.

What are your thoughts on the concept that the last trump isn't the 7th angel trump?

That's called every man in his own order.

Verse 6.

New International Version
And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
English Standard Version
And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
Berean Study Bible
And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
King James Bible
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Do you know who is holding him “Satan” know so that He may be revealed at the right time



Satan is being held in heaven by Michael right know.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Verse 8. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Verse 9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Verse 7
New International Version
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
English Standard Version
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Berean Study Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.

King James Bible
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.



Don't thank that means Satan's workers are not hard at work. The proof is in the pudding

We are sticking with what Paul has to say.


2nd Corinthians 11:12-15
Berean Study Bible
But I will keep on doing what I am doing, in order to undercut those who want an opportunity to be regarded as our equals in the things of which they boast.

King James Bible
But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.


Verse 13.

Berean Study Bible
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
King James Bible
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.



Verse 14.

Berean Study Bible
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
King James Bible
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.


Verse 15.

Berean Study Bible
It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions.
King James Bible
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.



Paul himself lets us know that in his time as in our time there will be those that clam to be christian preachers, ministers, prophets, and teachers they will look so good and sound so good, there message is sweet music to your ears and you will jump on the train for a ride straight to hell.


2nd Thessalonians verse 8

English Standard Version
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
Berean Study Bible
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
King James Bible
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:



The wicked one Satan shall be reveled and when the Lord returns at the sound of the 7th trump He will destroy Satan and set up His Millennium Kingdom.

Verse 9.

Berean Study Bible
The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder,

King James Bible
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,



"Even him"also includes Satan's religious beast system. Satan's religious system will be present with Satan. The religious beast is discussed in Revelation 13, and this the religious role that gives support and authority to Satan. Lets go to Revelation 13:13 to confirm these powers.

Berean Study Bible
And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people.
King James Bible
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Just how is he going to do this in the sight of (all or most people) That is easy internet and T.V.

The Beast Out of the Earth copped from Biblehub.com as are all the other verses

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

We need to go to part 4.





One Jesus returns at the the 7th trump per Revelation and to quite Paul"
Verse 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

You do realize that Jesus is coming back here to earth to set up His millennial kingdom.



Zachariah 14

Verse4

Berean Study Bible
On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.

King James Bible
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Verse 5.

Berean Study Bible
You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.
King James Bible
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Verse 6.

Berean Study Bible
On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost.
King James Bible
And it shall come to pass in that day,that the light shall not be clear,nor dark:

Verse 7.

Berean Study Bible
It will be a day known only to the LORD, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.
King James Bible
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass,that at evening time it shall be light.

Verse 8.

Berean Study Bible
And on that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the Eastern Sea and the other half toward the Western Sea, in summer and winter alike.
King James Bible
And it shall be in that day,that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Verse 9.

Berean Study Bible
On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth—the LORD alone, and His name alone.
King James Bible

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Verse 10.

Berean Study Bible
All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be turned into a plain, but Jerusalem will be raised up and will remain in her place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.
King James Bible
All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

Verse11.

Berean Study Bible
People will live there, and never again will there be an utter destruction. So Jerusalem will dwell securely.
King James Bible
And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Y
You tell em. I am on your side. God did say "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

John 1:1
2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In
Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

That's my point. Why would you assume the 7th angel trump is the last trump that Paul is referring to?

“but they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:31‬ ‭

just saying , eagles are meant to soar Above the earth. Lol of course this isnt support for “the rapture “

Very neat overlap with Rev 12.

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." - Rev 12:14 KJV

It isn't so much telling them, more as telling those who are searching. I think it got so far out of hand because only one side was speaking so what else could anyone believe. But now with all the lies and truths are brought out into the light so that people have a chance to really see and hear both sides, and to see the difference between what is simple and what is confusing. What can be READ and what has NOTHING written, and most of all, EVERYTHING that must be 'voided' in order to believe.

Revelation 20:1-6

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Notice the underlined verses if this is the first resurrection how could there be a rapture. There could not be unless there is a discrepancy in the bible. I do not believe that.

Are you agreeing that the last trump could not be placed prior to the first resurrection referenced in Rev 20:5?

I am saying that is the first. The samr that Paul spoke of in 1st Corinthians 15:52 that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, and is showen theoughout the entire bible.

Read your own post:
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." - 1 Cor 15:52 KJV

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." - 1 Thes 4:16-17 KJV

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." - John 5:25 KJV

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:" - Rev 1:10-11a KJV

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." - Rev 20:4-5 KJV

If you read the above passages, you will see where "Rev 20:5 rapture theory" comes from. Chronologically, there is the descent of the Lord, the first resurrection and then the "Caught up together" event.

Let's compare that to the theory that the seventh angel trump is the last trump:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." - Rev 11:15 KJV

The time difference between Rev 11:15 and Rev 20:5 does not appear to be "in the twinkle of an eye" required by 1 Cor 15:52.... I don't understand why you would think that the seventh angel trump is the last trump. If you have a moment, can you explain your position?