The Hostility Between Men & Women

One of the fascinating things about the Bible is its ability to 'change and move'. Ie. when the Spirit breathes on the words, they come alive, and a verse or passage that originally applied to one thing many years ago can suddenly apply to a contemporary situation. Ephesians 2:14-16 is one of many of such passages. It says:

"[Jesus] Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility."

Paul, in the context above, was talking about the invisible but middle wall of hostility between Jews and Gentiles, making it so that though they could coexist with each other, there was always a resentment and distrust brewing beneath the surface between them. However, that same passage also could rightly be applied to the invisible but middle wall of hostility between men and women.

Today, many men are scratching their heads when they interact with or observe some 'modern women' and the seemingly non-stop misandry or man-hating and feminism that comes from a lot of modern women. In college, where I learned nothing at all, unfortunately, and any time the topic comes up, men want to know how women think, and women want to know how men think. After trying to explain each side to the other in college but no one could understand what I was saying, it slowly began to dawn on me that there was 'a wall' between the sexes that prevents them from understanding each other. Furthermore, that wall makes them naturally (though latently) hostile or disagreeable toward each other.

I do see a lot of hostility between the sexes, sometimes overt hostility and other times covert or subtle. I figure that "nothing comes from nothing" and that if you resent or distrust someone who has not even wronged you, then it must come from something. I believe it began at the time of the Fall in Eden. At that time, many changes occurred one of which was this invisible but real wall of hostility that makes men and women innately and latently resentful and distrustful of each other. This thing, hiding way beneath, then is free to surface and begin causing problems in heterosexual relationships and marriages. Has anyone else noticed this?

There definitely is a culture being promoted to destroy family relationships and at the top of the list is the relationship between husband and wife.. It is a leftist feminist program to destroy the family and replace it with some kind of hive where no one is bound to another in marriage and children have no parents but will be raised by the collective..

Also woman are so encouraged to say what they want they have no desire to ask men what men want.. In fact doing so considered a sign that a woman is a ""pick me"" or a ""door mat"" That she is Pathetic.. There is a very real nasty streak in feminism..

If I had only seen the thread title, and had to place a bet on who would post in it first... I would have won the bet.

You nailed it: the wall began at the Fall.

There are inherent, God-designed differences between men and women (our different biology attests to that) which extend to emotions and thought patterns. The influence of the Fall is evident in our suspicion of one another, that "different" is "bad". In truth, God designed men and women to complement each other, to express jointly His glory.

There's a wall that has been standing
Since the day that Adam fell
Sin is where it started
Sin is why it held
Speaking as a prisoner
Who was there and lived to tell
I remember how it felt

...

...Ahem. Random song reference. Music nerd reflex. Ignore me. Carry on.

No shame in random song references. My new bride and stepdaughter are learning that I do random song references... often wildly inappropriate to the current context.

They did not know this beforehand?

Uh oh...

That's the kind of thing that could drive a person nuts if they didn't know what they were in for.

It balances her need for coffee... or causes it, I'm not sure yet.

Yes I’ve noticed hostility between men and women, especially in my own relationship. She wants a calm and gentle man and that’s great because I want to give that to her because that’s my preference and it’s easy.

Then I began seeing that the more calm and gentle I was the more she began complaining. The complaining reached a fever pitch and the whole relationship almost shipwrecked.

What I’ve learned is there is a balance. Occasionally I have to assert that I’m not a push-over, I won’t be a punching bag, and I can be confrontational in public if necessary. It seems like she only understands when I’m a dominant man, but when I’m a calm and gentle man I’m a doormat. That’s honesty how it feels to me.

There must be a balance, at least in my circumstance. Please pray for us.

Men are also resentful and distrustful of other men, and women are also resentful and distrustful of other women, so this isn't merely some sort of "battle between the sexes".

I think ultimately a person in authority cannot be too lenient/bend backwards too much.

For instance, a landlord cannot really be friends with a tenant.

A boss cannot be too friendly with employees.

If you are too kind to maids/housekeepers, they may take advantage of you. For instance, the maid may become lazy, give too many excuses, etc.

Similar with children, cannot be too lenient.

So, I do not necessarily think this is a issue between man/woman, husband/wife, etc. I think this is just an issue with human nature, both sides trying to find a balance. Both sides want to gain as much as possible, and also do not want to be taken advantage of.

I think all the issues between men/women go back to the Fall, specifically:

Genesis 3:16
16To the woman he said,
“I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

Man ruling over woman, I believe, is intended as punishment for the woman. Women will show resistance about being "ruled over" because it feels like punishment (however mild). This may come across in different ways. Although the verse only speaks to husband/wife relationship, not generally man/woman relationship, I think this issue bleeds over into many men thinking they can rule over women.

No. You nailed it. Lol. It's good to see that some people are consciously closer or aware of their intuition and can pick up on these types of things. There is without a doubt a wall (which, unless recognized and dealt with (sanctification) always causes problems in relationships), and it began at the Fall. Cheers to you.

Hang on a minute here Are you recently married???

I noticed that too and was wondering about it...

Sorry to hear that. As soon as I read "She wants a calm and gentle man", I thought, "Yeah, that's not true." Maybe a wounded part of her does, but that's not a woman's design.

Right now you're dealing with her carnal nature (of course), particularly the middle Wall of division between the sexes. That's a very big one (for both you and her) that needs to be addressed and 'healed' (sanctified), otherwise it will always cause problems. For many years, this Wall of division has been hiding and prospering beneath the surface as men and women 'fought' with each other. Time to expose it and deal with the real problem.

If you have to assert dominance or 'prove' anything to her, you're dancing with that Wall of division. Malachi 2 mentions how divorce causes violence. While that context was talking about marital divorce, this is also true with the divorce (partition Wall of hostility) that was raised between man and woman at the Fall. The prime objective is to 'find' that wall, address it, and uproot it. Only Jesus is able to do this because the wall is... how do I say it? It's a very legitimate problem. And no wonder because it has to do with the most intimate relationship God created between humans and a relationship that is a shadow of Jesus and the Bride.

The Wall causes men to have certain hostilities toward women and vice versa. One of the things it does for women is to make it so a man can never please them. He might be strong, gentle, attractive, rich, etc.-- but he is innately bad, evil, wicked, bad, bad, bad, and she is innately good so that even when she does bad, she is always justified. Can you see how this has always played out throughout history and how certain forces have been enhancing and promoting it so that it's more apparent now?

I can't say I'll spend the evening on my knees in prayer for you and your girlfriend/fiancee/wife. What I can say is that the root issue (without any doubt) is the middle Wall of hostility that the Fall raised between women which make women resent men (probably because Adam stood by and let Eve partake of the fruit) and makes men distrust women (probably because Eve was so easily charmed or convinced to do something Adam (and God) had plainly told her was bad news). My own suggestion is that you pray and ask God to reveal what is at the root of the issue(s) with your woman. Trust and believe that if you pray this way, you won't have long to wait. He'll probably start by leading you to or/and speaking to you from the Bible. Follow the trail: He might show you one thing which leads to another, and as you pray and follow, He will reveal the issues. It might begin with root issues that aren't as deep as the Wall (eg. childhood, maybe abuse, bad experiences with men, etc.). But I would advise you not to stop there. God reveals things step by step or one at a time. If you stop seeking too early, you'll get only a part and the greater foundation (the Wall) will remain to cause more problems later.

Please read 2Kings 13:14-19. In that passage, Elisha mentions the principle of ask and keep asking, seek and keep seeking, knock and keep knocking. When addressing something like you are, something you want to totally resolve, it's important to not stop digging for the root issues until you've found the taproot and God tells you that it is totally resolved so you can have a 100% victory instead of a partial one:

And Elisha said to [King Joash], “Take a bow and some arrows.” So he took himself a bow and some arrows. Then he said to the king of Israel, “Put your hand on the bow.” So he put his hand on it, and Elisha put his hands on the king’s hands. And he said, “Open the east window”; and he opened it. Then Elisha said, “Shoot”; and he shot. And he said, “The arrow of the Lord’s deliverance and the arrow of deliverance from Syria; for you must strike the Syrians at Aphek until you have destroyed them.” Then [Elisha] said [to King Joash], “Take the arrows”; so he took them. And he said to the king of Israel, “Strike the ground”; so he struck three times, and stopped. And the man of God was angry with him, and said, “You should have struck five or six times; then you would have struck Syria till you had destroyed it! But now you will strike Syria only three times.”

Don't stop until you have the full victory. Hopefully, she will be on board, but your place is to pray and ask God. God always is willing and ready to reveal or give answers that bring solutions or deliverance or healing or restoration. He is solution-oriented. But it will take time. In my opinion, solving problems is fun but that's not the way it is for everyone. Without a doubt, God will give you what you need if you press and keep pressing. He is a Revealer of Mysteries. He majors (and takes pride) in uncovering problems and solutions.

"[King Nebuchadnezzar] said to Daniel, 'Surely your God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery'" (Daniel 2).

One thing at a time, mon ami. We can't address or resolve all issues simultaneously. The Wall I speak of here is particular between men and women. It's not between men and men or women and women. That's just the good ole carnal nature when men are against men and women against women. But when men are against women and women are against men, this is a result of a 'special' Wall that was raised between men and women, not between men and men or women and women or animals and animals. It's a Wall of division meant to divide the sexes. And it does splendidly.

Oh no, this is a very 'special' Wall. Lol. This is a Wall meant to divide men from women and women from men. "Nothing comes from nothing." Everything has a cause or reason. When there is a particular hostility between two people, families, nations, but the hostility is greater than the observable cause (ie. both parties dislike each other for a reason that is way smaller than the expression of their dislike), then the observable cause is not the only one. There's another cause hidden deeper beneath the surface.

Of course, the Bible talks about this Wall; but like most things in the Bible, it doesn't talk about it plainly. The following passage is a very good example of this Wall though it's not mentioned; but if you ask God for insight into the matter and wait for it, He will begin to disclose it from the top. If you continue to seek more, then He will travel with you down to the very bottom of what was going on. Otherwise you'll have a beginner level understanding of what happened there.

Read Numbers 12. In it, Aaron and Miriam begin speaking against Moses because Moses married a Gentile woman. Now, by faith we know that God doesn't hate women or view them as second-class citizens to men. However, when God confronted Aaron and Miriam for speaking against Moses, He only punished Miriam (harshly) but did not punish Aaron at all. So, either God does hate women... or something else was going on that the Bible doesn't explain to us. By faith, we know God doesn't hate women, therefore, the only real answer is that something else was going on (and I know a lot of christians hate digging for hidden gems and want to simplify everything because they're lazy).

God cursed Miriam with leprosy. (He was ticked.) When Moses and Aaron begged God to heal her, God reconsidered and told Moses, "If her father had spit in her face, would she not have been in disgrace for seven days? Confine her outside the camp for seven days; after that she can be brought back." God was so angry at Miriam that at the time He didn't have a plan for her healing. Moses had to beg Him first. He responded that if Miriam's father had spit in her face, she would have to be rejected for seven days. So, I don't want to force you think (thinking (and finding answers and mysteries) is fun for me, but not for most others), but do you know what it would take for a loving father to spit in his daughter's face? Fathers favor daughters naturally. Miriam would have to have insulted and disrespected her dad to a really high level for him to spit in her face and have her isolated for seven whole days.

So, why did Miriam and Aaron say the same bad things about Moses and God was in fact angry at both of them but was angrier at Miriam? Because "the LORD looks on the heart" (1Samuel 16:7). When it comes to authority, men naturally innately respect authority more than women do. If five men and five women were speaking against an authority figure, usually the woman's heart is more hateful and rebellious. For her, it's rarely just a surface disapproval but a heart one. God is very (very) particular about protecting authorities and respecting them to the extent that lucifer and all the evil people in authority have a kind of protection. The Bible says that Michael the Archangel himself could not revile lucifer because lucifer, though not in the same position in Heaven, is still recognized by God as an authority. "But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, 'The Lord rebuke you'" (Jude 1:9, NLT). The Bible also tells believers to respect everyone in positions of authority even those people are evil. There's a reason for that, and women are likelier to oppose authority figures due to their emotions than men are as men have an innate understanding of authority that women don't really have.

Now, why was Miriam's heart more hostile towards Moses than Aaron's? I believe you can follow it back to the Fall. Adam, the authority figure, did not cover Eve at the time of the Fall. It would make sense for women to develop a resentment towards men (who are automatic authority figures) that continues to operate even if all the men in their lives are doing everything right. It is rooted to the Fall where the first authority figure (Adam) did not cover or save Eve (while the second Adam does cover and save us), therefore, it just plays on repeat until Jesus heals the middle Wall of division between men and women, individually in relationships and corporately at 'the end of all things'.

You can agree or disagree if you want. That's none of my business. If you think I'm seeking approval or agreement, then you're thoroughly mistaken. I don't want to follow in the footsteps of the first Adam (who chose to not do good for a woman) but of the second Adam (who was a Man the way God designed men to be). I'm not here trying to get likes or any of that. I was born to live, not to please men. And certainly not to please women.

Wanted to comment on this and let you in on a little secret. I think most women really want a man who embodies strength under control but if a woman has ever been harmed by a man's strength before then strength is also a scary thing. She wants to be confident that you'll beat the crap out of any threats to her but you'll never beat the crap out of her. And if you can find that balance things will end up good.

But then I'm kind of a weird girl so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

So lemme get this straight. If I have a problem with another woman and feel combative towards her then that's just run of the mill carnal nature, but if I have a problem with a man then that's because of some sort of special additional division and not due to my carnal nature? Sorry not buying it. Not when plain old sinful nature is enough to explain conflict all by itself.

You think most women want a man who embodies strength under control. I know all women naturally want that (naturally; no wounds and other mitigating factors added) because it is God's design. Find God's design and you have basically the whole thing. All women are designed to be attracted to the same thing; the same with all men. That's the simple part of things; then there's a complex part because everything (down to rocks and water and molecules) God created is both simple and complex... of course, because God is both simple and complex.

Slow down. You run ahead like most people. If you don't understand or even agree with someone says, it's better to ask what they mean than to just start disagreeing. That doesn't make for any peace or unity. I didn't say if a woman has a problem with a woman then it's carnal nature but that if a woman has a problem with a man then it's the Wall of Division. I'm saying that women have an innate and latent resentment for men, therefore, it's always present whether or not a woman has an issue with a man. The issue doesn't always spring from the Wall, but the Wall is there unlike when a woman has an issue with a woman. There is no special wall between women; there's a special Wall between men and women. Whether or not men and women get along, that Wall is still there between them. The NT alludes to this, but like most things in the Bible, it's not there on the surface. There is a Wall; the Wall causes a latent hostility between men and women, not between men and men or women and women. Simple. You don't even have to go to the Bible first; go and watch people-- especially couples (starting with unmarried ones). Look beneath the surface. Feminism has been here since the Fall; it's just been growing more and more as we approach 'the end of all things'. I mean, the Bible doesn't tell us, but imagine how Adam and Eve felt towards each other when they were kicked out of the Garden. There was no one to blame but themselves, and they were blaming themselves before the Fall even kicked off. Can you see it now? It's not difficult to put things together when you begin looking. But if you aren't looking... then how will you see?