Jesus is God

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,894
1,458
113
67
Brighton, MI
This problem began when the Council of Nicaea/Laodicea and Trent took the holy name of God (YHWH) out of the Bible. You can't tell which GOD/God/LORD/Lord is being referenced. I feel so sorry that humans have to be so confused. Jesus is not God! He is the SON of God. They are two separate Spirit Beings with total different powers/purpose. God was not created, Jesus was created. He clearly tells you he (Jesus) was BESIDE his Father as a Master Worker. Prov 8:30-31 Jesus died--God cannot die. Who really would think God, would come out of a Woman's Womb? The Heaven cannot contain God so tell me how the Earth would 2 Chronicles 2:6. Eyes will NOT see and Ears will NOT hear. Ask God to open your 3rd Eye or brain. Rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus!
Proverbs 8
Darby Translation
8 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding give forth her voice?

2 On the top of high places by the way, at the cross-paths she taketh her stand.

3 Beside the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors, she crieth aloud.

4 Unto you, men, I call, and my voice is to the sons of man:

5 O ye simple, understand prudence; and ye foolish, understand sense.

6 Hear, for I will speak excellent things, and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7 For my palate shall meditate truth, and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing tortuous or perverse in them.

9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold:

11 for wisdom is better than rubies, and all the things that may be desired are not equal to it.

12 I wisdom dwell [with] prudence, and find the knowledge [which cometh] of reflection.

13 The fear of Jehovah is to hate evil; pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth do I hate.

14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am intelligence; I have strength.

15 By me kings reign, and rulers make just decrees;

16 by me princes rule, and nobles, all the judges of the earth.

17 I love those that love me; and they that seek me early shall find me.

18 Riches and honour are with me; durable wealth and righteousness.

19 My fruit is better than fine gold, yea, than pure gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20 I walk in the path of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21 that I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasuries.

22 Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from eternity, from the beginning, before the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth, when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth;

26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the beginning of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he ordained the circle upon the face of the deep;

28 when he established the skies above, when the fountains of the deep became strong;

29 when he imposed on the sea his decree that the waters should not pass his commandment, when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 then I was by him [his] nursling, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth, and my delights [were] with the sons of men.

32 And now, sons, hearken unto me, and blessed are they that keep my ways:

33 hear instruction and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and obtaineth favour of Jehovah;

36 but he that sinneth against me doeth violence to his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

God always had the attribute of Wisdom. Yes, I know Wisdom is not a woman, not counting my wife.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,894
1,458
113
67
Brighton, MI
If he was the first born of many brethren, then I by the renewing of the Holy Ghost can say the same as my elder brother Yeshua. The Father and I are also one, the Father is also in me and I in him or else I am not one of His. That was Yeshua's message to the disciples, Father make them one with you even as I am one with you. He was not saying make them one with one another but one with the Father. For two thousand years more or less the same doctrines have been believed and preached, just look where it has gotten us today. What has changed - nothing. The so called church is worse off then what it was in the beginning.
Yeshua being of the son of David was trying to bring us into a place where we could be elevated to the dame plane as he was, to be equal with God and that means to be equal in our expression where it is no longer I but the anointing in mee that elevates us to a place of rest. I'm afraid the end of the gentile age is over and the wild olive branch is about to be broken off and the natural grafted back in.
And, yet none of Jewish People pick up stones and understand you as claiming to be God.

1671405554160.png
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,894
1,458
113
67
Brighton, MI
This problem began when the Council of Nicaea/Laodicea and Trent took the holy name of God (YHWH) out of the Bible. You can't tell which GOD/God/LORD/Lord is being referenced. I feel so sorry that humans have to be so confused. Jesus is not God! He is the SON of God. They are two separate Spirit Beings with total different powers/purpose. God was not created, Jesus was created. He clearly tells you he (Jesus) was BESIDE his Father as a Master Worker. Prov 8:30-31 Jesus died--God cannot die. Who really would think God, would come out of a Woman's Womb? The Heaven cannot contain God so tell me how the Earth would 2 Chronicles 2:6. Eyes will NOT see and Ears will NOT hear. Ask God to open your 3rd Eye or brain. Rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus!
What English translations existed around 325AD?
Proverbs 8 is about Wisdom(female), not Jesus(male).
 
Dec 17, 2022
13
5
3
If Jesus pre-existed before Abraham.. and Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus' day, then Jesus is putting Himself on equal footing with God the Father. Jesus saying 'I AM' .. the context around it makes Him fully God anyway.

What pre-existing being in the OT that is with the Father.. isn't fully God? I don't see any. The Holy Spirit is obviously fully God.. since it's God's Spirit. The Father--- well who in their right mind would say the Father isn't God? And then all things were created thru Jesus and by Jesus.. and all thing consist through Jesus.

How can a being like that.. not be fully God?

* Around before Abraham
* All things created through Him
* In the beginning with the Father
* In Him all things consist

That isn't describing a lesser being than the Father.
I rest my case, been hearing these arguments for 40 years. If you believe Jesus was God in a man's body, I'm fine with your beliefs. I preached the same thing you believe until the Spirit took me aside and had me study the scripture, rightly dividing it without the influence of the doctrines of men. It's amazing what God will open up to us if we'll be open and not afraid to venture out of the box of other men's thoughts. I'm blessed because I no longer have to defend any doctrines of men. I'm not trying to build anything or get a following, when we bind mercy and truth about our neck he will set us in the way of His steps.

If we are not allowing the spirit to bring us into the place of sons, equal with the Father in our expression then what is this all about. What are we trying to perfect?
 
Dec 17, 2022
13
5
3
Please see this verse which explains what Jesus Christ being the Son of God means. It means He is equal to His Father:

John 5:18b: "he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."

So here it clearly says that Jesus Christ was declaring Himself equal with God.

Mat 2:11: "On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh."

See how the Magi worship Baby Jesus. They know the Child before them is Almighty God Himself, not a mere creature.

Phil 2:6 "Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped"

Another verse declaring that Jesus is equal to God. Nicea got this right and virtually all Christian denominations agree.

In Christ,
Xavier.
Yes, the Catholic Church is the mother of the protestant church becuse the protestant Church still holds to its core beliefs but Paul said Jerusalem above, the free woman, is the mother of us all = including Yeshua.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
If a mere man died for us, we are all still in our sins. That is because no mere man, himself a sinner, could pay the debt for our sins.

The Beautiful Good News of Christianity, and the Gospel, is that GOD came down from Heaven to be our Savior.

It is not that a mere man died for us on that Cross, but that God offered His Life for us as an Atoning or Redeeming Sacrifice.

It is because God has demonstrated His Love for us first, by living and dying for us, that we can love Him so much in return.

Christianity is not about a mere man named Jesus doing this that. It is about God becoming Flesh in the Person of Jesus Chirst.
 
Dec 17, 2022
13
5
3
I haven't been in the church scene for many years and I can see it hasn't changed. People keep bailing out of it because it's dead.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
Yes, the Catholic Church is the mother of the protestant church becuse the protestant Church still holds to its core beliefs but Paul said Jerusalem above, the free woman, is the mother of us all = including Yeshua.
What does Gal 4:26 have to do with it? Paul was speaking about the two covenants, and the earthly and heavenly Jerusalem. The Heavenly Jerusalem is the Mother of All Christians.

Can you answer the 3 verses I cited in the post you qote? These verses show (1) Jesus Christ is equal to God (2) Jesus Christ was worshipped, and so is God (3) Jesus Christ was equal to God before He came down from Heaven and took the Nature of a Servant. He did that because He loves us, and He loves you, friend. If you love Him, you should not say He is only a man, but confess that He is truly Lord and God, as Apostle Thomas did: "My Lord and My God"
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
John 20:
"27Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


So Jesus considers only the declaration that He is Lord and God as belief in Him. He says those of us who haven't seen Him are blessed if we too confess Him as Lord and God as Thomas did, but without seeing Him.

Also, Christianity is not completely dead or anything. According to the latest survey, there are some 2.5 BN Christians in the world, out of some 8 billion people. Not great, but not very bad either. And some Churches - in Christian Unity - are planning a Billion Soul Harvest by 2033 to commemorate the 2000th Year Anniversary of the Resurrection. If that succeeds, Christianity will reach 3 BN Souls and more soon. I am praying for that and also working with some involved with that.

God Bless.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,894
1,458
113
67
Brighton, MI
I rest my case, been hearing these arguments for 40 years. If you believe Jesus was God in a man's body, I'm fine with your beliefs. I preached the same thing you believe until the Spirit took me aside and had me study the scripture, rightly dividing it without the influence of the doctrines of men. It's amazing what God will open up to us if we'll be open and not afraid to venture out of the box of other men's thoughts. I'm blessed because I no longer have to defend any doctrines of men. I'm not trying to build anything or get a following, when we bind mercy and truth about our neck he will set us in the way of His steps.

If we are not allowing the spirit to bring us into the place of sons, equal with the Father in our expression then what is this all about. What are we trying to perfect?
Friend what do you mean by equal with the Father ???
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,894
1,458
113
67
Brighton, MI
Yes, the Catholic Church is the mother of the protestant church becuse the protestant Church still holds to its core beliefs but Paul said Jerusalem above, the free woman, is the mother of us all = including Yeshua.
John 5:18b: "he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
Jn 1:1-3 is enough to refute Modern Arianism.

"John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,027
1,022
113
New Zealand
I rest my case, been hearing these arguments for 40 years. If you believe Jesus was God in a man's body, I'm fine with your beliefs. I preached the same thing you believe until the Spirit took me aside and had me study the scripture, rightly dividing it without the influence of the doctrines of men. It's amazing what God will open up to us if we'll be open and not afraid to venture out of the box of other men's thoughts. I'm blessed because I no longer have to defend any doctrines of men. I'm not trying to build anything or get a following, when we bind mercy and truth about our neck he will set us in the way of His steps.

If we are not allowing the spirit to bring us into the place of sons, equal with the Father in our expression then what is this all about. What are we trying to perfect?
We AREN'T trying to be perfect :)
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,027
1,022
113
New Zealand
I rest my case, been hearing these arguments for 40 years. If you believe Jesus was God in a man's body, I'm fine with your beliefs. I preached the same thing you believe until the Spirit took me aside and had me study the scripture, rightly dividing it without the influence of the doctrines of men. It's amazing what God will open up to us if we'll be open and not afraid to venture out of the box of other men's thoughts. I'm blessed because I no longer have to defend any doctrines of men. I'm not trying to build anything or get a following, when we bind mercy and truth about our neck he will set us in the way of His steps.

If we are not allowing the spirit to bring us into the place of sons, equal with the Father in our expression then what is this all about. What are we trying to perfect?
The Spirit took you aside?

And that same Spirit was sent by Jesus .. as the Comforter according to scripture. Well.. Jesus had the power to send the Holy Spirit.. that's God's power.

Jesus being God.. is not the doctrine of men. There is clear and plain scripture that declares Jesus was God in the flesh. 'Immanual.. God with us'

'In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily'

Just two of many many verses.

Unless you are going to argue that scripture is the doctrine of men and not God's Word.

But oh well.. we can agree to disagree.. but belief in Jesus as God is key to eternal salvation being received.
 
Dec 17, 2022
13
5
3
.
The Spirit took you aside?

And that same Spirit was sent by Jesus .. as the Comforter according to scripture. Well.. Jesus had the power to send the Holy Spirit.. that's God's power.

Jesus being God.. is not the doctrine of men. There is clear and plain scripture that declares Jesus was God in the flesh. 'Immanual.. God with us'

'In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily'

Just two of many many verses.

Unless you are going to argue that scripture is the doctrine of men and not God's Word.

But oh well.. we can agree to disagree.. but belief in Jesus as God is key to eternal salvation being received.
Like I said, I rest my case. Do a study on your own and see how many times Paul and the others spoke of Yeshua being the seed of David according to the flesh. If he was a man like you and I and he revealed to man how to enter a relationship with God as Father and son, I think it makes him greater than some God man like the Hellonists believed. Like I said I've diligently studied the scriptures for over forty years and I will never know it all but I was willing to give up those old religious beliefs (the same ones that most Christians continue to believe) when God sheds light on something you once thought was truth, you leave it behind and go on to perfection.
Like I said before I once believed exactly as you all and argued many times that Jesus was God come down from heaven and took to himself a body of flesh. However when God begins to open things to you in a different light, you can't fight against God.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,027
1,022
113
New Zealand
.


Like I said, I rest my case. Do a study on your own and see how many times Paul and the others spoke of Yeshua being the seed of David according to the flesh. If he was a man like you and I and he revealed to man how to enter a relationship with God as Father and son, I think it makes him greater than some God man like the Hellonists believed. Like I said I've diligently studied the scriptures for over forty years and I will never know it all but I was willing to give up those old religious beliefs (the same ones that most Christians continue to believe) when God sheds light on something you once thought was truth, you leave it behind and go on to perfection.
Like I said before I once believed exactly as you all and argued many times that Jesus was God come down from heaven and took to himself a body of flesh. However when God begins to open things to you in a different light, you can't fight against God.
Weeeell you haven't put forward a good case yet:)

But nevermind.

I was a New Ager... i know some other beliefs around semi-christianity.

I was also a charismatic Christian.. so I know about some of the semi-christian beliefs in parts of that too.

I haven't just been told Jesus is God. I studied for myself also.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
113
Just one God. Notice how Hebrews 1 says that Jesus is the express image of God. Some translations say that Jesus is the exact representation of God. People in general are also in the image of God, but we're not exact representations or the express image any more like Adam and Eve were in the beginning. This is referring to Jesus' sinless perfection in the same way that God is sinlessly perfect.

It also talks about Jesus being worshipped by angels. You may notice that when Jesus is worshipped that he was worshipped as the Son of God. Worship of the Son of God is authorized.

Here the Magi worshipped Jesus as the Messiah.
Matthew 2
2and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

Jesus worshipped as the Son of God.
Matthew 14:33
33Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Notice who exalted Jesus, that was God. Notice who gets the glory, God the Father.
Philippians 2
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Notice it was God who brought the firstborn into the world. Notice the angels are God's angels.
Hebrews 1
6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
 
Dec 30, 2020
868
226
43
The Holy Spirit of God allows us to understand His truth. Once this truth is revealed to someone, it is natural for that person to want to reveal it to others. Of course, everyone on CC thinks that they have the truth and everyone should be bold enough to share their truth. Salvation comes through the foolishness of preaching and those that are destined to believe the truth will. You cannot force anyone to believe your truth. All that we can do is to present it and let the Holy Spirit of God touch the hearts and mind of those who will receive it.
God has always existed. He has no beginning and no end. He transcends time, is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and all-powerful. He can be described as an essence that permeates everywhere and possesses a mind, heart, and soul. Eph 4: 6 There is...One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. In John 15: 26 and John 8: 42 the Holy Spirit and Christ proceedeth from the Father. The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit through which He communicates and empowers. Christ is a spiritual being with His own mind, heart, and soul, and with a free will, but because He is filled with the Father's Spirit, He is One with the Father and displays the same image as the Father. It is through Christ that the Father communicates and performs His will of creating everything in existence. Jesus is the Son of Man because of Mary, and the Son of God through the Holy Spirit of the Father. Christ ( the Word, Jehovah, the Lord, etc.) existed before Jesus was born, sat at the Father's right hand (meaning that He performed the Father's will) in creation, and therefore is the God of all creation and Lord of all except the Father (whom He obeys). All authority is given to Him in heaven and on earth by the Father. Yes, He lowered Himself to become human, but He was sent when He was in Heaven. Isaiah 43: 10 ... before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. This verse is spoken by Christ because the Father has no beginning but apparently, the God (Christ) in Isaiah 43: 10 had a time that existed before Him which means that He didn't always exist in the past. Actually, the beginning started when Christ was formed out of the Father's essence. Alpha and Omega means the first and the last.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,957
1,387
113
Midwest
everyone should be bold enough to share their truth. Salvation comes through the foolishness of preaching and those that are destined to believe the truth will. You cannot force anyone to believe your truth. All that we can do is to present it and let the Holy Spirit of God touch the hearts and mind of those who will receive it.
Correct! Amen!! Praise Be To The Eternally Existing Almighty God!!!:

...the God (Christ) in Isaiah 43: 10 had a time that existed before Him which means that He didn't always exist in the past...
Thanks for your presentation - disagree with the above part, because of:

"Complete" Case For JESUS Is The God Who Eternally Exists! Amen.

Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!