Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,068
426
83
[
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

People do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit until they hear and decide to believe the gospel.
The hearing of that verse is spiritual hearing, not physical hearing. To hear spiritually, God must give
ears that can hear. Until that happens no one can believe - it comes from salvation and is not to salvation.

[Mat 13:13-14, 16 KJV]
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: ...
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,675
1,619
113

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
2,951
1,253
113
They need to explain why God used especially in the first vs
why God said not just ours (all believers) but the whole world

And why the dead and the grace overflows to everyone in the third

They can’t so the go in circles.
Yes, that's one of several that I don't see how you can get around. There is no way you can make that sentence say something else.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,501
3,116
113
Even if faith is a gift from God it's still something we actively do. God offers the gift of salvation through grace and we accept it by faith. Otherwise Christians would all be a bunch of robots. The fear of works on the part of some is reaching absurd proportions.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
13,707
5,093
113
62
Do you mean understand that it was Jesus walking with them? Were they not saved until then?
I mean what I asked. Those are good questions to consider once the original question is answered.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
3,486
1,393
113
The things people come up with to support their heresies. Fixed it for ya.
It needs to be called out for what it is, heresy is the correct word.

To put forth that Jesus did not die for everyone, that people are chosen and others are not granted salvation is heresy.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,068
426
83
Even if faith is a gift from God it's still something we actively do. God offers the gift of salvation through grace and we accept it by faith. Otherwise Christians would all be a bunch of robots. The fear of works on the part of some is reaching absurd proportions.
Salvation was brought to fruition by Christ's faith, not ours. Our faith comes as a result of His faith. It is not something that
can be "accepted" in order to invoke - true faith transforms itself into our reality in spite of us.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,675
1,619
113
I mean what I asked. Those are good questions to consider once the original question is answered.
I asked because I recently posted of the message of wisdom among the mature being revealed by the Spirit of God in 1 Cor2, which matter of fitly connects to Hebrews 6' message of leaving the elementary teachings and being taken to maturity... a maturity that culminates in full assurance (Colossians 4:12). And so I will rephrase my question. What conclusion, exactly, do you mean to lead us to?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
2,951
1,253
113
Salvation was brought to fruition by Christ's faith, not ours. Our faith comes as a result of His faith. It is not something that
can be "accepted" in order to invoke - true faith transforms itself into our reality in spite of us.

Rom. 10 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
13,707
5,093
113
62
I asked because I recently posted of the message of wisdom among the mature being revealed by the Spirit of God in 1 Cor2, which matter of fitly connects to Hebrews 6' message of leaving the elementary teachings and being taken to maturity... a maturity that culminates in full assurance (Colossians 4:12). And so I will rephrase my question. What conclusion, exactly, do you mean to lead us to?
I asked a question. Rather than answer it, you ask me questions. So you heard my question but didn't know what it meant. Now you want me to answer so your understanding will be opened.
So it is possible to hear and not understand and to see and not perceive.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
2,951
1,253
113
At what point on the road to Emmaus did the 2 disciples understand?

Well here is what the Bible says ...

28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.


So when they sat and had a meal.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
13,707
5,093
113
62
Well here is what the Bible says ...

28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.


So when they sat and had a meal.
Then their eyes were opened...
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,675
1,619
113
I asked a question. Rather than answer it, you ask me questions. So you heard my question but didn't know what it meant. Now you want me to answer so your understanding will be opened.
So it is possible to hear and not understand and to see and not perceive.
That's ok. I just wanted to make sure that was being led to be coming closer to the full assurance, as is my hope, rather than to any conclusion that might bring said assurance into question.