The True Church

This is exactly what he has been teaching me you just put in words perfectly

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I believe Abraham was friends with Jesus like he calls his disciples who follow Abraham's example of faith

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
James 2:23 KJV

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
Isaiah 41:8 KJV

Abraham's friendship with God is the only reason Israel was ever chosen, the only reason he promised to redeem the nations to himself , and the only reason he promised to make in Abraham's seed an everlasting covenant, and eventually bring his judgements to all nations to bless them and turn them away from sin and death to righteousness and life

Abraham always heard what God said would bless him and then he acted on it , he lied when the pressure was on him about saria because he was afraid , but God didn't forsake him he renewed a covenant with him based on Gods own perfection and faithfulness and not based upon man's imperfection and sinful nature


He because of Abrahams obedience offering Isaac not only saved Isaac but foretold of Christ
Abraham is also a prophet he trusts God so he speaks faith even in the trial


And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Genesis 22:8 KJV

It seems like Abraham is just keeping him quiet decieving him but it's a prophecy of Christ a word of true faith

and looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
John 1:36 KJV

Really Christianity is based on the relationship Abraham had with Jesus before he became flesh to fulfill the promise he made to Abraham , Isaac and also Jacob ( before he was named Israel and later the law came )

You are killing me here. First I say he didn't know everything. Then you said how much the prophets knew. Then you played the Isaiah card. Now they don't know everything. Smh.
I'm not shaking my head. I'm scratching my head but I don't know the acronym for scratching my head so I improvised.

If the Isaiah card is when he wrote, "Behold, God is my salvation...And He has become my salvation (Isaiah 12:2)," then Isaiah at least said Jesus' name twice whether he realized it or not. But we know that Jesus "lived up to His Name." Isaiah had to just trust that He would.

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Matthew 11:13 KJV

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:44 KJV

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 5:39‭-‬40 KJV

And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

.. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Acts 28:23‭-‬24‭, ‬30‭-‬31 KJ

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

For Moses truly said unto the fathers( Deuteronomy 18:15-19), A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.( John 5:24,12:48-50)

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Unto you first God having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Acts 3:19‭-‬26 KJV

It's always been Jesus but man lost sight of him and who he was the new testament reveals God to us

Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
Isaiah 52:6‭-‬7‭, ‬10 KJV

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:3‭-‬6 KJV

but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:6‭-‬11 KJ


For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6 KJV

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1 John 5:20 KJV

We have no actual proof either our faith has to look back trusting it's true , Thiers had to look forward trusting it was true

The common thread is they believed what God said and we also believe what he said it's faith

Believers that go to be with the Lord.. go to heaven.. yes. But all believers aren't there yet assembled together.

That won't happen till the New Jerusalem.

And so I don't believe in a universal, invisible assembly. Because it is not completely assembled. It isn't one body yet.

To the next question.. one local church makes one body. It's not body.. as in Jesus ' own body or body as in one big unassembled mass .. but body as in group, congregation, assembly.

One Jesus .. with many assemblies He calls His own.

What is universal in scripture... is the Family of God and the Kingdom.

Like you say ..the local assemblies represent the Kingdom. They are the visual representations of it. But they aren't the same thing. They are in it.. but not all of it.

Lastly.. when you see 'there is one body.. one faith.. one baptism.. in Ephesians..

First.. 'there is' is added. Bibles that are honest.. show this. So it could be read as just 'one body.. one faith..'

Next thing is the church in question is at Ephesus.

That's the body being talked about .

Look at all the language about unity and togetherness.. that's only do able for the church at Ephesus.

As an example to other churches. Churches plural.

All believers will be one church in the end. But ot isn't a present state of being. Now we have Churches plural inside the Family and Kingdom.

I was just teasing with the phrase the Isaiah card. But what names a person uses for God is very telling of a person's relationship to God.
God's names have very specific meaning and are sometimes given by a child of God to God after an experience with God. Thus, the name reflects a fuller understanding of who God is.
You have probably prayed with many people. No doubt you have thought some had a much deeper understanding of God and a more intimate relationship with Him based on the earnestness and substance of their prayer. And that was partially conveyed to you by the intimacy of the names they chose for God.
I find myself sharing about something I can only speculate about and so am only sharing what seems right to me. If someone else understands differently, I'm not saying they are wrong, merely that I see it differently.

You are very gracious in your use of terminology.
I am blessed with employment that allows me the opportunity to multitasking. Being the boss has some advantages.
Plus I enjoy the comraderie of quite a number of people here and, as my circle of friends are very similar to me, this site affords me a cornucopia of Christian views and scholarship.
I'm still learning how to navigate the minefields.

4 are in college. I've passed there schooling on to "professionals ".

If four are home schooled and four are in college, that adds up to eight

Are my math skills suffering?. It is not my strong suit.

I am taking lessons from you and a few others

Thank you!

Let me just say this, it is not proper for us as believers, to go beyond Scripture or to speculate. God does not tell us what these men understood or didn't understand in the OT. Occasionally, we are told what the disciples understood or didn't. But only God can know what any of us truly understand. We may think we have got it but be far off base. Today we have the benefit of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the completed Word; therefore, we should have a better understanding. than those before us, if we have applied our self to study and prayer but I do not take anything away from what the Lord may have made clear to the Prophets, through direct revelation.

Your math is fine. 7 biological kids. 1 stepdaughter. 7 + 1 = 8

Never said they were. The Bride is made-up of the completed members of the Universal Assembly. In other words, the body of Christ. This body, while under the same Salvation as the OT Saints, are not destined for the same office in the Millennial Kingdom.

The Universal Assembly, is the term for all believers within the Assembly that Christ continues to build. It is not Israel or the so-called New Israel.

All that is correct. But speculation is fine as long as you call it what it is and recognize it is beyond scripture. The names someone uses for God is not speculative. They are in scripture. And since names reflect an understanding of God, it isn't speculation as to their understanding.