the Sabbath

TMS · Nov 14, 2024

The curse of the law is that it condemns us of sin.
As sinners we are all cursed.

But by faith in Christ we are Justified.
Made free from the curse

But the curse and penalty of the law is not the same as the law.
The law is love and just and Righteous.
The penalty is a curse. = death.

God did not remove the law in order to save us from the curse.
God paid the price and died for our transgressions of the law.
The penalty was paid in full. But the law still stands as a guild the point out sin.

God is not the God of lawlessness.
By grace through faith the law does not hold us guilt so we have been made free.

Rom 6:15-16
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

This does not say the law is void.
The penalty is made void but faith is not an excuse to sin.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Nov 14, 2024

TMS said:

That's correct. He made us dead to the law, and alive to God. The law can't condemn where it has no dominion

dave44 · Nov 14, 2024

I am only going to message on this hopefully once. I am no scholar. But for one, I tried following the Sabbath thinking it may be mandatory and the same night I had a vision / lucid dream which to cut it short basically said "yes fight me yourself" the devil said as an impossible enemy to defeat. Only saying. I stopped after this as a warning from God I assume.

Other than this, it is mentioned that jews/hebrews are only those inwardly and not only outwardly. Jesus said to the pharisees they were of there father the devil and not of Abraham even though they might be by blood. Because it is by the seed of Abraham all nations are saved, which is Jesus Christ the seed. As far as I understand it. Therefore all are a part of Israel as being "graffed in to the vine" as believers in Christ.

The orchard and wine press were taken from israel the people and given to another people who produce fruit (new covenant etc). Jesus commanded the fruitless tree die and be no more. This seems to be the message for me in my understanding In Marks Gospel.

So, if we are of israel as in the vine of Jesus, and Jesus said that the laws were covered by "love God" and "love your neighbour as yourself", and that the Sabbath was "made for man, not man for the Sabbath", and that there were 4 commands to abstain from fornication, blood consumption, eating anything strangled, or given to idols etc, the only other commands we can add are the ones from Paul which are basically the same as what is already said only fleshed out to show what it means more fully.

Others say "Jesus is our rest and Sabbath". And the issue is also the dates. The Sabbath is not Saturday always. It goes by moons and new moons. And Paul said he worries for those following times and new moons as far as I remember etc. So is this not worry about Saturday Sabbath. We are not circumcised outwardly; so are we to do this also, as this was part of the covenant. It says that we will have circumcised hearts and this was prophesied so you could say we are circumcised, but do we also follow the Sabbath inwardly or outwardly also? Why did I have a warning? was it the devil in my dreams, can God be so weak as to not protect me when I have prayed and when I am sealed with the Spirit?

Not so. God is all powerful.

If you fail in one area of the law you fail the law. There are over 600 laws. The ten commandments are not the only laws. But we apparently cover them by love. If the priests profane the Sabbath and work but are Justified, in the temple service as Jesus mentioned, are we not, as priests and an holy people, allowed to work also. Or do we have two rest days, saturday and sunday, as Paul stayed and taught all of sunday did he not? or is this work and not rest? I cannot tell and must only go by my heart and warning. I think it is only for israel, and I am under a new covenant. Jesus was risen I may be wrong, at the split between saturday and sunday. [check, maybe wrong] Was he not risen on the first day sunday. But wait, sabbath is night and day, not day and night. So we would have to do sabbath from friday 6pm to saturday 6pm, or is it sunday 6pm. The two halves of the day. For us it is two days in our calendar way of doing things, and not always a saturday due to our calendar. Which calendar do we follow? The Enochian?

Aaron56 · Nov 14, 2024

TMS said:

The character of God is important
It does not change.

God is ......
Perfect
Holy
Spirit
Love
Light
True
Righteousness
Righteous
Just
Pure
Good
Faithful
Wisdom
Great
The God of peace
Unchanging.......

God is all of these things and He gave the law Himself. The law reflects the character of God.

The Law is......
Perfect. Ps 19:7, Jam 1:25
Holy. Rom 7:12
Spirit. Rom 7:14
Love. 1 Tim 1:5, Rom 13:10
Light Pro 6:23
True. Neh 9:13, Ps 119:142, 151
Righteousness. Ps 119:172
Righteous. Rom 8:4
Just. Rom 7:12
Pure. Ps 19:8
Good. Rom 7:12, 1 Tim 1:8
Faithful. Psa 119:86
Wisdom. Ps 11:10, Ps 119:98
Great. Hos 8:12
Love of the Law = peace. Psa119:165
Unchanging. Mat 5:18.

Jesus does not make this law void.
We are told to keep it.
True .... we are also told that keeping it without faith is a curse. Or that works alone do not save us. ... but the law is still valid. Pointing us to God and directing us away from sin.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

This was covered previously, like, whenever we read “commandments” we should not insert “10 commandments given at Sinai”.
Try to keep up.

Inquisitor · Nov 14, 2024

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

The AI machine punched out a better explanation than I could have.

Are AI machines saved?

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaa.

Inquisitor · Nov 14, 2024

dave44 said:

I am only going to message on this hopefully once. I am no scholar. But for one, I tried following the Sabbath thinking it may be mandatory and the same night I had a vision / lucid dream which to cut it short basically said "yes fight me yourself" the devil said as an impossible enemy to defeat. Only saying. I stopped after this as a warning from God I assume.

Other than this, it is mentioned that jews/hebrews are only those inwardly and not only outwardly. Jesus said to the pharisees they were of there father the devil and not of Abraham even though they might be by blood. Because it is by the seed of Abraham all nations are saved, which is Jesus Christ the seed. As far as I understand it. Therefore all are a part of Israel as being "graffed in to the vine" as believers in Christ.

The orchard and wine press were taken from israel the people and given to another people who produce fruit (new covenant etc). Jesus commanded the fruitless tree die and be no more. This seems to be the message for me in my understanding In Marks Gospel.

So, if we are of israel as in the vine of Jesus, and Jesus said that the laws were covered by "love God" and "love your neighbour as yourself", and that the Sabbath was "made for man, not man for the Sabbath", and that there were 4 commands to abstain from fornication, blood consumption, eating anything strangled, or given to idols etc, the only other commands we can add are the ones from Paul which are basically the same as what is already said only fleshed out to show what it means more fully.

Others say "Jesus is our rest and Sabbath". And the issue is also the dates. The Sabbath is not Saturday always. It goes by moons and new moons. And Paul said he worries for those following times and new moons as far as I remember etc. So is this not worry about Saturday Sabbath. We are not circumcised outwardly; so are we to do this also, as this was part of the covenant. It says that we will have circumcised hearts and this was prophesied so you could say we are circumcised, but do we also follow the Sabbath inwardly or outwardly also? Why did I have a warning? was it the devil in my dreams, can God be so weak as to not protect me when I have prayed and when I am sealed with the Spirit?

Not so. God is all powerful.

If you fail in one area of the law you fail the law. There are over 600 laws. The ten commandments are not the only laws. But we apparently cover them by love. If the priests profane the Sabbath and work but are Justified, in the temple service as Jesus mentioned, are we not, as priests and an holy people, allowed to work also. Or do we have two rest days, saturday and sunday, as Paul stayed and taught all of sunday did he not? or is this work and not rest? I cannot tell and must only go by my heart and warning. I think it is only for israel, and I am under a new covenant. Jesus was risen I may be wrong, at the split between saturday and sunday. [check, maybe wrong] Was he not risen on the first day sunday. But wait, sabbath is night and day, not day and night. So we would have to do sabbath from friday 6pm to saturday 6pm, or is it sunday 6pm. The two halves of the day. For us it is two days in our calendar way of doing things, and not always a saturday due to our calendar. Which calendar do we follow? The Enochian?

Some good questions you asked and I can see this is a well worn path for you.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me
and gave Himself up for me.

The Old Testament and everything in the O.T was the shadow and the promise.

The New Testament contains the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

The full fulfillment of the prophecy in the O.T was Jesus Christ, the messiah, the promised one.

Jesus fulfilled the law with the perfect sacrifice for our eternal reconciliation.

Everything is contained and understood in Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Inquisitor · Nov 14, 2024

TMS said:

Paul said where there is no law there is no sin.

Romans 5:13
For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law.

Grace and law are mutually exclusive.

Grace and law are in direct opposition to one another.

Grace is a free expression of God's love for us in Jesus Christ.

The law requires our full attention and effort and the law declared that no one is righteous.

Grace requires nothing from us and cannot be earned.

The law cannot save and will never proclaim Christ crucified.

The law involves the flesh and requires your willpower, you will obey the law to the letter.

Jesus Christ is Spirit and is eternal.

TMS · Nov 14, 2024

Inquisitor said:

This is not true....
No law = no sin.
No sin = no need for grace.

No law = no need for grace

Law = we are sinners
As sinners we need grace.

Are we saved by the blood of Jesus or are we saved by the removal of the law?

I go to Jesus and by faith ask for His grace.
If there is no law I don't need grace...
No law = no sin = no need for grace.

Rom 7:7-8 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Rom 7:11-13
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Do you need grace?

TMS · Nov 14, 2024

Aaron56 said:

So I ask
We're the 10 commandments that God gave Himself perfect? Were they Holy? Were they Just? And Righteous and truth, and Good?

TMS · Nov 14, 2024

Inquisitor said:

Jesus perfectly obeyed the law so that He could be perfectly righteous.

It does show our sinfulness, but that just leads us to the grace of Jesus.

TMS · Nov 15, 2024

dave44 said:

The names and ways have changed but one thing I'm sure about is that the 7 day cycle has not changed.
The sabbath was kept by Jesus and He was the example for us.
The day He kept was Saturday (Friday night, Saturday).
The 7 day cycle has not changed. Jews have kept it and there is no way we are keeping the wrong day.
God even put it in some animals DNA.
A 15 year study of beavers showed that they rested every sabbath without fail
Look it up yourself. There is evidence for those that are willing to believe. But God does not force people.. 2 Thes 2:9-11

God will allow People to believe a lie and be deceived by the devil because they don't want to believe the truth..

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Nov 15, 2024

TMS said:

The claim of one man who makes videos for a living. The "study" is not available for review so we cannot determine the validity of his observations. Other studies appear to show a weak signal of a 7-day periodicity in various species, but it is not correlated with Saturday

SabbathBlessing · Nov 15, 2024

To be dead to the law means to be dead to the penalty or condemnation of the law, not the law itself, which is holy, just and good Rom 12:7

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

What is walking in the Spirit?

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

What is walking in the flesh?

It's sin- breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

Rom 8: 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

This truly cannot be more clear.

We are not walking in His Spirit by not obeying God's commandments.

God wants our inward parts changed- which starts with our thoughts. He wrote His law in our hearts right where sin begins. If our heart changes through Christ our actions will change.

Those in Christ live according to the Spirit which violates no law.

Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (under the penalty)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:]adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

If we abide in Christ we will walk just as He walked following in His footsteps

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Jesus kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Follow the Lamb!

Those who enter His rest ALSO cease their works as God did, on the seventh day Heb 4:4 Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3

10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
"For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

Its not God telling us not to keep His commandments, there is a spiritual war going on and scripture says the whole world is deceived, follow the narrow path Jesus told us to take that leads to reconciliation Rev 22:14

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Nov 15, 2024

SabbathBlessing said:

Most scholars consider the underlined part to be an interpolation from verse 4 that does not belong in verse 1, That's why most bible translations omit those words in verse 1

SabbathBlessing · Nov 15, 2024

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

The scholars of Jesus day also got it wrong. God didn't make a mistake in His Word, its fits the context of that entire chapter and harmonizes with the rest of His Word.

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Nov 15, 2024

SabbathBlessing said:

You twist scripture so badly I get the impression you don't know what faith is

ChristRoseFromTheDead · Nov 15, 2024

SabbathBlessing said:

Scholars are the reason you have a bible in English

SabbathBlessing · Nov 15, 2024

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

I quoted the scriptures as the read and believe them, your impressions and feelings has no bearing in my life. You do not have to agree with the scriptures, that's fine, they are clear but we have free will to believe what we want. Even without who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit doesn't change the context of the rest of the passage including v7-8

vassal · Nov 15, 2024

Jesus the Messiah, The Word of GOD, our Savior, The Lamb of God, the Kings of Kings, The Prince of Peace, The Good Shepherd, The resurrection and the Life, The High priest, our Advocate Before God our father in heaven, The chief cornerstone, the Alpha and the Omega, the Judge, the Mighty GOD who fulfilled the law and prophets, explained there are two paths one can take, one to eternal life and one to perdition. Which one are you taking? Jesus said and quoted the commandments as the means for salvation. His words are true and certain. Then Why do you follow Paul the Pharisee, and to use Paul's own words, not mine; The least of the Apostles, The chief of sinners, Less than the least of all the saints, who persecuted the church of God and murdered the saints. Why would you reject the teachings of Jesus to whom all a who says who was teaching the commandments and was following the sabbath? and listen to Paul instead?

Ill tell you why, because the gospel of Paul is easy, just believe. That is the wide path that many are taking

the Gospel of Jesus is not the same and so forgiving and requires obedience and repentance from sin. This if the Only path that leads to eternal life. Jesus as it is written, is the only way to eternal life. In truth, many do not want to change and instead hang on every word of Paul But completely Ignore Jesus teachings as if it was of no importance.

Unless you all who promote Lawlessness and refuse to repent, and refuse change your ways, you will not inherit eternal life.

The Sabbath day is part of the 10 Commandments, this is what many people try very hard with scripture used in the proper context to tell you but you refuse truth, you refuse God.

SabbathBlessing · Nov 15, 2024

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

I never said all scholars but the majority in Christ's time got it wrong and something He said would be more prevalent before He returns Mat 24:4-5 Its why I don't use modern translations and why we should check the original transcripts as well.

Jesus said: If you love Me keep My commandments
Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, the seventh day is the Sabbath day of the Lord thy God.
He kept the commandments and the Sabbath and He said follow Me

Man says to forget the Sabbath. We don't need the law- we can make up our own law on what we deem is love to God, not what He deemed. Exo 20:6 1 John 5:3 and to follow man's traditions over God's commandments Mat 15:3-14

As stated all gets sorted out soon enough. I do wish you well.

the Sabbath

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