Compatibilist free will

Compatibilism. Soft determinism (or compatibilism) is the position or view that causal determinism is true, but we still act as free, morally responsible agents when, in the absence of external constraints, our actions are caused by our desires

I am not intelligent enough to understand what this means. I have been looking into this topic ever since i joined this forum and even more now recently. So my question is, this sounds to be true based on personal experience and just something I can observe around me. A kid will always choose candy over broccoli, because thats just how it is.

Where I lose the plot is: If compatibilist free will is true, and we are "bound" by our nature, why does God ask us to do things we cant do, and then gets mad when we dont do it?

I know this horse has been beaten so many times, but I want this thread to focus on the WILL in particular, how does this work in our salvation?

Let me start by publicly confessing that I am terrible when it comes to understanding isms. In other words, I have never studied any of them, and whenever somebody accuses me of adhering to any type of ism, even as a poster on this forum falsely accused me of adhering to two different isms earlier today, I have to go to my search engine to figure out what any given ism even means. With that confession out of the way, if I have misunderstood your question, and if I subsequently give a response which does not properly address your actual question, then it is not deliberate on my part, but rather it is due to my own admitted ignorance.

Seeing how your question centers around our nature, I will simply suggest that what type of nature we truly have is directly linked to whether or not we can truly do what God asks or commands us to do.

On the one hand, there is this nature.

Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

According to scripture, the unregenerate are not only by nature the children of wrath, but they are also being led by the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. To my understanding, the unregenerate will never truly be able to obey God because they have the wrong spirit working inside of them. Oh, they might truly desire to obey God, but when it comes to finding the inner power which is needed to do so, they simply do not have it.

On the other hand, there is this nature.

Eze 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20
That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

According to scripture, the regenerate, or those who have supernaturally received a new heart and a new spirit within them by means of the new birth, or by way of being truly born again, can not only desire to obey God, but they also have the inner power needed to do so because they are now indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

If I understood your question properly, then I believe that this is the answer to it.

Great response thanks mate. Very intellectual and polite. Now would you say all humans can ask God for this new heart and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior? Or is it something where *POOF* God does it and then we just come to believe?

Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

In scripture, salvation is offered to whosoever desires it, so, yes, I do believe that all humans can ask God for this new heart and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. However, I also believe that God is the one who seeks to initiate the relationship. In other words, he strives with us by the Holy Spirit while seeking to draw us unto himself through Christ. Whether or not we favorably respond to such strivings is determined by our own free will choices. Here are a couple of portions of scripture which lend credence to what I am saying.

Mat 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Here, we see a contrast between Christ's will (how often would I have gathered your children together) and the will of the people (and you would not!). Throughout Israel's history, Christ often initiated the preferred relationship of eternal salvation by seeking to gather them to himself, but they more often than not rejected his will for them while opposing him with their own free wills.

We see a very similar situation here.

Act 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Once again, we see a repeated resisting of the Holy Ghost throughout Israel's history. As their forefathers always resisted the Holy Ghost of their own free wills, so did they of their own free wills.

The Bible frequently compares God's desired union with people to a marital relationship. In the same way that a man proposes to his wife, God proposes marriage between us and his Son, and we can either choose to accept that proposal or to refuse it.

Mat 22:1
And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
Mat 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
Mat 22:4
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
Mat 22:5
But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
Mat 22:6
And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
Mat 22:7
But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
Mat 22:8
Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Mat 22:9
Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
Mat 22:10
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Mat 22:11
And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Here we see a certain king, or God the Father, making a marriage for his Son which, of course, is Jesus. He sent forth his servants, the prophets, to bid people to the wedding, and they would not come. Not they could not come, but they would not come. Again, although God was doing the bidding, they refused his will for their lives, or they rejected his gracious offer of salvation, while clinging to their own free wills instead. God sent other servants, or more prophets, but the people made light of the call while making excuses for rejecting the invitation. Others went so far as to kill the prophets. God, in response to their continual rejections of his gracious offer of salvation, sent forth his armies against them, and he burned their city, Jerusalem, in his wrath. God then broadened the scope of his invitation, and, ultimately, the wedding was furnished with guests. However, there was a man there who was not clothed with the proper wedding garment or who was not arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints (Rev. 19:8). Consequentially, that man was bound and cast into outer darkness where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Based upon this requirement for imputed righteousness, we see that many were called, but only few were chosen.

In the light of such truths as these, we see that God's will is for everybody to be saved, but the free will choices or responses of those whom God has called will determine who is ultimately saved.

everyone wants to know what "casual determinism" is. you casually determine this or that? if that's what it is, i never determine something casually, i'm direct with it. God never asks us to do something we can't do. He always gives us provisions & the ability to act on His word. just study & learn Phililppians 2:13!!!

Can you give a Scriptural example of God doing this?

Amen Magenta!

Mt 22: 14:
For many are called, but few are chosen.
2 Cor 7: 10:
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Jn 16: 7-9:
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me...
Jn 3: 19-20:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

When we're called to the Lord as we're being ministered by a member of the body of Christ, the Holy Spirit convicts them for their sins while calling them to the Lord. Those who respond with a godly sorrow, turn to the Lord in repentance; while others whose guilt leads them to turn away from the Lord, instead: either from a desire to continue in their sins or in unbelief: prefer darkness.

There's been some successes; for example:

"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named
Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron,
and her name was Elizabeth.And they were both righteous before God,
walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."
(Luke 1:5-6)

"If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." (Phil 3:4-6)

Cain got off on the wrong foot, but he still had a chance to straighten up and
fly right.

"Then the Lord said to Cain: If you do what is right, will you not be
accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it
desires to have you, but you must master it." (Gen 4:6-7)

This is the first mention of self control in the Bible. In other words: God
created humanity with the capability to choose bad ways for itself; but that's
only half the story. God also created humanity with the capability to choose
good ways for itself; so He wasn't requiring something impossible from Cain
like touching his right elbow with the thumb of his right hand.
_

How about an example of the Lord not doing it.
1 Jas 1: 13-15:
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
And again in 1 Cor 10: 13:
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
These two verses are why I do not believe that every act is predestinated by the Lord!

In fact: Rom 8: 29:
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The above verse, therefore, tells me that at sometime in the future, most likely after we enter into our redemption, members of the body of Christ are predestinated to be conformed into Jesus' moral image.
Let me go out on a limb here and say that since much of the New Testament scriptures speak to us about our various sins and that those scriptures are eternal: I suspect that it will not be until after we're in New Jerusalem that Rom 8: 29 will ultimately be fulfilled.

Agree!


God will also not tempt us beyond what we can endure.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 10:

13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

God gives us the ability to do what He asks us to do.

Romans 12:6-8

Ephesians 3:20

F.Y.I.

That’s because God won’t force you to enjoy the plan he has for you. He gives you the choice to accept or reject his salvation. He gives you the choice to obey or disobey his directions. He gives you the choice to follow or ignore the purpose for which you were created.

For example telling us to be perfect. That would be one. Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:48 comes close to that: "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect".

my greatness Magenta, you're knocking me out with these pretty women in your posts!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahaha

Thank you, Karlon, and don't forget that creation was good until Eve was made, and then it was very good!