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Thanks for sharing about praying under the fig tree, I would not have known that otherwise. I must have frustrated you by completely ignoring what you said about that, lol.

Huh? Sorry, I wasn't trying to feud with you or anything. I was just talking about the verses. I didn't pick up on the significance of what you were saying about people praying under the fig tree, I was just talking about the verses. Thanks for sharing that.

Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the world and Isaiah 53 says the chastisement of our peace was upon him, but Jesus says anyone who learns of the Father will come to him and that someone has to be drawn by the Father to come to him.

I read the surrounding verses. Jesus tells Nathaniel something about him and then when Nathaniel asks how Jesus knows him he said he saw him under the fig tree. Jesus knows all men so perhaps Nathaniel knew that he would have to be the Son of God to know that about him by looking at him.

Well, Jesus is God's Son and made everything. I think he genuinely might not want to sin. Comparing yourself to Jesus would be like comparing yourself to your friend in terms of his relationship with his Dad, it's not the same thing.

I think it might be because Jesus was just honest with him that he believed. Jesus said he is meek and lowly in heart, so maybe for Jesus to tell him that it was enough for him to believe?

I might get where you're coming from. There's not much of anything as far as I know with regards to evidence for the plagues in Egypt and the Exodus, but Jews celebrate passover.

Sorry, I didn't mean anything by it. Maybe Jesus telling him that was enough for Nathaniel to believe?

Or he might have just been being honest, and he saw him under the fig tree!

Ah, if you read further in the thread you will see at least one verse that shows a baby alive in the womb. I think there might be another verse in this thread, and I think I had read both before, but I don't know if they were on my mind when I made this thread.

The devil is an angel, he might have quickly brought Jesus there somehow. I think angels might be able to immediately travel from heaven to earth.

Has any pro-abortion group ever determined to find out if there is life in the womb or are they like just operating on wishful thinking or something?

Luke 1:15 (KJV) For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Well I think this might seal the deal, if John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in his mother's womb...

I don't know I guess I sort of lean towards coming into the world to mean being after birth.

That's really how you read it?

What do you mean? In not sinning? I don't think it's in Jesus' nature to sin... God is holy... I guess by definition that means he wouldn't sin, I'm not sure if Jesus is, but I don't know if he ever would... when you say advantage, I guess I might sort of see it from that perspective if it...

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. I'm just wondering if anyone sees this the same way I kind of do. From this verse it is I guess sort of implied that someone is born when they come into the world, I was wondering if anyone sees it this way...

Not a Christian song, but it kind of makes me think of heavenly judgment against the devil and his angels as well as us, and salvation in a certain light.

Oh, I might have been completely ignorant. Chastisement just might mean the same thing as punishment.

Ok... but if Jesus was just fulfilling the role of a sacrifice it would explain this, and it says chastisement, not punishment. Just asking questions because I don't understand things well and don't want to believe a false gospel.