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Because I believe deeply in Jesus and know where I stand in Him, I have complete security and assurance of salvation. Though I still at times sin, I am 100% resting in assurance and my faith in the finished atoning work of Jesus Christ. What I have seen happen to OSAS believers around me is...

What is my point? I prefer to just simply remain with what the Scriptures say instead of adding the man-made doctrine of OSAS. OSAS leads many to wrestle deeply with assurance of salvation, and then to think that it is their works that keep them saved. The one believing has eternal life...

Yeah, I suppose that is one way to look at it: Verse 27 does not give a condition about the sheep. It just actually states a fact about them. His sheep are hearing His voice, and His is knowing them, and they are following Him. So the persons not hearing and following (Greek present tense -...

You said this about my thoughts on "have not believed" being equal to "never believed": The words "have not believed", found in both verses seems clear enough for me. If you have NEVER eaten a certain food, it could be said that you "have not eaten" that certain food. Agree? The only way the...

Here is John 10:27-29 KJV 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them...

On John 3:18 and II Thess. 2:12: I did a little looking at these verses in both some English versions and also at the Greek verb tenses. The best I can tell it seems as if none of these clearly says NEVER believed. I suppose one could read that into the verse if needed: but I am curious as...

Jermemiah 43:10 KJV And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.

Jeremiah 43:9 KJV Take great stones in thine hand, and hide them in the clay in the brickkiln, which is at the entry of Pharaoh's house in Tahpanhes, in the sight of the men of Judah;

Scripture is interpreted by the Holy Spirit, not by common sense. That is what I was referring to.

Huh? OSAS does not meet the test of "common sense"? If we go by common sense, then we are bound to have different opinions. I just prefer to begin and end with the Scriptures: and thus the issue is whether or not Scripture clearly states that once a person is saved (believes) that they...

No one loses salvation because of sins they commit. For the believer in Jesus Christ, any and all sins that they commit are forgiven through the atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus. It is only the person who is not believing in Jesus Christ who is condemned because of sin.

Unfortunately I do know people in the OSAS camp who live this way - and a few who talk this way.

Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death All sin leads to death: whether murder, adultery, or a tiny lie. It takes only one sin and a person is guilty before God: and eternal death is the result. James 2:10: If a man keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all...

Our salvation is not based on our works. Thus we do not "weave in and out of" salvation bases on our actions or thoughts. Not even close!!!!!! Salvation is always based simply and factually on this: Are you believing in Jesus Christ?

The problem is not interpretation of Scripture. It is taking one's presupposed doctrine and docrtinal statements and imposing it upon the Scriptures.

Just looking carefully at the one verse you quote is sufficient to see the point: John 5:24 says that the one who is hearing and is believing (both verbs are the Greek present tense = ongoing action) has eternal life. That promise is sufficient for me. I do not need to add "unrevocable...

If I save someone from drowning in a pool: that is - I saved them, but they jump back into the pool again after I leave, and drown: Now does that mean that since they lost their life, that I never saved them at all?

Most of the passages used to "prove" OSAS are powerful promises to the ones who are believing in Jesus. But it is clear they are promises to the one who is believing in Jesus. They are not promises to the one who is not believing.

The person who is believing and continues to believe has eternal life. But the one who is not believing (in Jesus) does not have eternal life. This is what Scripture teaches. OSAS says that once a person has faith, he will always have faith. This eliminates free choice for the believer...

Ah, you hit the nail on the head. Much of the Western Protestant church has become very feminized. Nothing wrong with the emotional music, etc, but please don't take it into the mens' small group of all places!. And men meeting at a coffee shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::cry: