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I see it that way. It seems to me that the world will be under the beast, and that will be the only government and religion. But this doesn’t mean that there will not be people who refuse the authority of the beast. There will be people who rebel against the beast by not having the mark of the...

I agree Muslims cannot have salvation outside of faith in Christ and they don’t worship our God. However the God of the Jews is our God but they cannot be saved without Christ as well.

I understand what you are saying, but this would mean that you agree that the Jews worship a true God. First, is God the Father a false God. Not at all, the Father is a true God. Second, the Trinity has existed since the beginning. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were there since the beginning...

I think that it is best that we define what we mean by Christian because we are dividing over that. I believe that a Christian is anyone who accepts Christ as their Lord and savior.

I understand what you are saying because I am a Protestant. But I would say that is is paganism. Yes they have traditions that disturb me but they believe that Christ died, rose, and is coming again. So I wouldn’t call it paganism but I do understand where you are coming from. Our Catholic...

Ok I think that the only way to get a productive conversation is for Jackson to state his claim about the Jews first.

Yes I agree that Romans 10:2 clearly says that Jews have a zeal for God. You can’t get around it. I don’t see how someone would get the Jews THINK they have a zeal for God from that passage. Dan I am just confused on your stance on CCC 841. Could you clarify if you agree with it or not? If we...

Me, you, and Dan are not Catholics. We agree that the Jews worship a true God. Not sure what Dan thinks about the Muslim God but I think that he would that Allah is not Yahweh (If you don’t we can discuss it, but we both know that it is not a core doctrinal problem).

I understand what you are saying. If the Jews are truly followers of Judaism then they have not created their own God. But Jews who are not following Judaism have their own sense of righteousness.

I agree. I am just wondering, where did all the Catholics go

The verse clearly says that Jews zeal for God. It doesn’t say their own God. Could you show me the verse where Paul speaks about Jews establishing their own god. This could just be when the Jews fell into idolatry as recorded in the Song of Moses in Deutoronomy ( I believe chapter 32). If Jews...

I just wanted to speak about the fact that Our God and Allah are not the same. Sura 5:18 points out that Allah is not a father. One of Yahweh’s most important characteristic is the fact that He is a father. The closest relationship that you can have with Allah is Slave to Master with Yahweh it...

I don’t see why you think that we don’t think that the word, God, in Romans 10:2 refers to someone other than Yahweh. I have already pointed out in my other replies that this refers to God. We are not denying that the fact that it refers to our God.

Yes I would love to talk to a Catholic about this but none of them are still posting on this thread. CCC 841 has no biblical basis.

Ok then we are both against CCC 841. So I don’t think that we have any disagreement.

Yes Moses spoke very briefly about a prophet in Deuteronomy 18 which didn’t too much info. But other passages like Isaiah 53, Psalms 110, and Daniel 7 give more information for the Messiah. Many prophets in the Old Testament added on to what Moses said. Btw are you Catholic or Protestant. If...

I think I know what you were trying to say but just to clarify, I wouldn’t say that the Old Testament Jews believed in Jesus but they did believe in the coming Messiah. In fact the Jews today are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah, but they don’t recognize Christ as the Messiah.

I am new to this debate and I am trying to see where their is disagreement so I can pick a side but I don’t see the problem. I do not feel like going through all 85 of the previous pages to find the dispute so could you point it out. As it seems now I think you are talking about CCC 841 but I am...

Yes I agree with you.

Well yes the I do agree that Jews cannot be saved without Christ. But I wouldn’t call Judaism a false religion. If you did then that would mean that all of the men of God, like Moses, would be condemned to hell. Plus Our God instituted Judaism, so if Jews aren’t worshiping the one true God...