a Question for the Premillennialists

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A

Abiding

Guest
#61
#61
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
was 69 weeks literal?? Yes. (proven by history)

should not the last week be literal also then?? Yes or no??
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Abiding writes:
the answer is no 70 weeks IS NOT literal
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EG said:But all PAST prophesy has been fulfilled literally. so we would be foolish not to interpret future prophesy the same as all past prophesy has been fulfilled. It is called precedence. Why would God change the way he does things?


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according to this logic...we SHOULD NOT expect FUTURE prophecy to be fulfilled literally...it is called precedence according to EG.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
#62
Abiding said:
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
was 69 weeks literal?? Yes. (proven by history)

should not the last week be literal also then?? Yes or no??
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Abiding writes:
the answer is no 70 weeks IS NOT literal
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1. Can you prove that?
2. How can you say that when the day when Jesus entered jerusalem (The time till messiah the prince) was the exact day. or 69 years from the time the command to restore jerusalem want out.


EG said:But all PAST prophesy has been fulfilled literally. so we would be foolish not to interpret future prophesy the same as all past prophesy has been fulfilled. It is called precedence. Why would God change the way he does things?


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according to this logic...we SHOULD NOT expect FUTURE prophecy to be fulfilled literally...it is called precedence according to EG.
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You ever here of slander?? I have said over and over it SHOULD BE INTERPRITD LITERALY. So where do you get off slandering me??
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#63
#63
shroom2 said:
Not really.

If it's scriptural.


The woman in v6 is Israel.


I'm not certain. But Israel will be pursued and tormented by satan in the trib.
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In the days of Elijah it did not rain for 3 years and 6 months and he went into the wilderness and was fed by birds so there are similarities but what was literal in the OT is symbolic in the NT. The 1260 days then which is in the midst of this symbolic prophecy is also symbolic. Daniel 7 tells us when the 1260 days began but it is good to understand Daniel 2 first in Daniel 2 we have:-

Gold=Babylon 605-539 BC
Silver=Medo-Persia 539-331 BC
Brass=Greece 331-168 BC
Iron=Rome 168 BC-476 AD
Feet of iron & clay 476-2nd advent
 
cronjecj

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
#64
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
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#64
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
#65
cronjecj said:
Do you see the Revelation as literal?
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do I see ALL prophesy concerning time literal?? YES.

1000 years is 1000 years. no more, no less.

do I think the things which John saw will literally occur in the future?? Yes. That is what prophesy is.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#66
#66
eternally-gratefull said:
do I see ALL prophesy concerning time literal?? YES.

1000 years is 1000 years. no more, no less.

do I think the things which John saw will literally occur in the future?? Yes. That is what prophesy is.
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Can you explain why the 42 months or 1260 days would be literal when it is in the midst of symbolic prophecy?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
#67
Laodicea said:
Can you explain why the 42 months or 1260 days would be literal when it is in the midst of symbolic prophecy?
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symbolic?? Who is the woman is she symbolic? or is she real?? The church is called the bride. is that symbolic? or is that a name given to her?

and again. Why would God say 42 months if he did not mean 42 months. when has God ever used time in a symbolic way?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
#68
eternally-gratefull said:
symbolic?? Who is the woman is she symbolic? or is she real?? The church is called the bride. is that symbolic? or is that a name given to her?

and again. Why would God say 42 months if he did not mean 42 months. when has God ever used time in a symbolic way?
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that should be prophetic time.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#69
#69
eternally-gratefull said:
symbolic?? Who is the woman is she symbolic? or is she real?? The church is called the bride. is that symbolic? or is that a name given to her?

and again. Why would God say 42 months if he did not mean 42 months. when has God ever used time in a symbolic way?
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The woman is symbolic of the church, the moon is symbolic, the sun, the 12 stars the 7 heads the horns and so on so then the 1260 days is also symbolic the year/day principle should be used, It represents the 1260 years of Papal persecution from 538-1798 when the Pope was taken prisoner in 1798 is when the 1260 years ended. All protestants used to teach that the antichrist was the Papacy during the reformation from the time of Martin Luther but, the antichrist has done a good job of changing the meaning of the prophecies to mean something else.

Although it was predicted in Daniel that the meaning of the prophecies would be changed by the antichrist
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#70
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#70
Laodicea said:
The woman is symbolic of the church, the moon is symbolic, the sun, the 12 stars the 7 heads the horns and so on so then the 1260 days is also symbolic the year/day principle should be used, It represents the 1260 years of Papal persecution from 538-1798 when the Pope was taken prisoner in 1798 is when the 1260 years ended. All protestants used to teach that the antichrist was the Papacy during the reformation from the time of Martin Luther but, the antichrist has done a good job of changing the meaning of the prophecies to mean something else.

Although it was predicted in Daniel that the meaning of the prophecies would be changed by the antichrist
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wow. Read into scripture much?

I completely disagree with your view.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#71
#71
shroom2 said:
wow. Read into scripture much?

I completely disagree with your view.
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Read Daniel 7 and it tells you that the 1260 days started when the little horn uprooted the third kingdom. In 476 AD western Rome was divided into 10 parts, the Papacy came up not long later and the Papacy uprooted 3 kingdoms the 3rd in 538 AD

[FONT=&quot]From the time of Constantine (A.D. 306-337), to that of Justinian (A.D. 527-565), a long and violent struggle continued between the two largest factions of the Church: (a) Those who supported the Bishop of Rome against (b) those who embraced the doctrines of Arius, a heretical priest of Alexandria. The Emperors of Eastern Rome, whose capital was now in Constantinople, were foremost in championing the Catholic cause. The strife was often bitter and bloody. Most of the barbarian nations, to whom the Roman Empire had now yielded, bowed to the authority of the Bishop of Rome. But the Heruli, the Vandals and the Ostrogoths challenged his sovereignty. They were con-firmed Arians. The first Arian "horn" was uprooted in A.D. 493 when Theodoric, leader of the Ostrogoths, crushed the power of the Heruli in Italy. A generation later, under the impact of Justinian's forces, fighting the cause of the Roman pontiff, the last two barriers to Papal supremacy collapsed in this order:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Vandals in A.D. 534.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Ostrogoths in A.D. 538.[/FONT]
 
cronjecj

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
#72
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
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#72
eternally-gratefull said:
do I see ALL prophesy concerning time literal?? YES.

1000 years is 1000 years. no more, no less.

do I think the things which John saw will literally occur in the future?? Yes. That is what prophesy is.
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..well that explains a lot.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
#73
Laodicea said:
The woman is symbolic of the church,
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As I said earlier. She CAN"T be the church. The woman gave BIRTH To Christ. The Church did not birth Christ, Christ birthed the church. The woman HAS to be Israel, or Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Remember, Christ was called the son of David. Not the church. She is not symbolic. She is the name given to the people who birthed Christ.

the moon is symbolic, the sun, the 12 stars the 7 heads the horns and so on so then the 1260 days is also symbolic the year/day principle should be used, It represents the 1260 years of Papal persecution from 538-1798 when the Pope was taken prisoner in 1798 is when the 1260 years ended. All protestants used to teach that the antichrist was the Papacy during the reformation from the time of Martin Luther but, the antichrist has done a good job of changing the meaning of the prophecies to mean something else.

Although it was predicted in Daniel that the meaning of the prophecies would be changed by the antichrist
Click to expand...


And as I say again. Just look at what Christ said of this time period.

If he did not stop this "tribulation" NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE. But for the SAKE OF TZHE ELECT, he returns.

Sorry, But I did not see this tribulation during the papacy where all mankind could kill itself.

And I did not see Christ return in the clouds at the end to put an end to this tribulation.

It HAS NOT happened yet.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#74
#74
eternally-gratefull said:
1. Can you prove that?
2. How can you say that when the day when Jesus entered jerusalem (The time till messiah the prince) was the exact day. or 69 years from the time the command to restore jerusalem want out.




You ever here of slander?? I have said over and over it SHOULD BE INTERPRITD LITERALY. So where do you get off slandering me??
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wow my point is that weeks taking literally would be weeks EG. But since
we say in prophecy they are symbolic for years....then your statement that
all prophecy is interpreted and fulfilled literally just is not true.

I can find other examples...i just thought that one would be a place to start.
My point is this to take away the rule that isnt a rule. and if you think it has
to be a rule then it seems it would always have to be a rule.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
#76
Abiding said:
wow my point is that weeks taking literally would be weeks EG. But since
we say in prophecy they are symbolic for years....then your statement that
all prophecy is interpreted and fulfilled literally just is not true.
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No abiding, you do not get it.

You live in a time where a "week" is a literal word for 7 days.

In jewish times, they had two weeks.

A "week" of days

and a "week" of years. Both were LITERAL TIMES. There is NO SYMBOLOGY INVOLVED.

Unlike us today, In Daniels time they had weeks (7 years) where we have a "decade" 10 years. It is terminoly which is a LITERAL word. and LITERAL time.

If Gabriel had spoken to us, he would have said 49 decades (490 years) And no one who understands what a decade is would have thought he was speaking symbolically. A decade is a LITERAL period of time (ten years) as a week is a literal period of Time (7 years)

I can find other examples...i just thought that one would be a place to start.
My point is this to take away the rule that isnt a rule. and if you think it has
to be a rule then it seems it would always have to be a rule.
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Well hopefully you find a better example. The problem is we do not speak the same language as daniel did. What he say as a literal week of years, we look as symbolic because we do not understand the language, or time.

It would be like Daniel reading 49 decades. Unless he know our language, he could not understand that this "decade" was a literal period of time. not symbolic!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
#77
cronjecj said:
im done here.

Abiding, it's no use.
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Your right, it is no use. You will not open your heart to see why others believe the way they do.

so why bother right? I wonder the same thing many times!!
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#78
#78
eternally-gratefull said:



As I said earlier. She CAN"T be the church. The woman gave BIRTH To Christ. The Church did not birth Christ, Christ birthed the church. The woman HAS to be Israel, or Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Remember, Christ was called the son of David. Not the church. She is not symbolic. She is the name given to the people who birthed Christ.
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Acts 7:38
(38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Do you know who the church in the wilderness is?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79
#79
Laodicea said:
Acts 7:38
(38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Do you know who the church in the wilderness is?
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What does this prove my friend?

Did the church give birth to Christ? Or did Isreal?

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.

Or is the church the offspring of the woman? (through Christ.)

16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 
cronjecj

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
#80
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
0
#80
eternally-gratefull said:
What does this prove my friend?

Did the church give birth to Christ? Or did Isreal?

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.

Or is the church the offspring of the woman? (through Christ.)

16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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here is it..
Revelation 12 (KJV)
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, and the moon
under her feet, and upon her head a crown of
twelve stars (12 tribes of Israel):
And she (Israel) being with child (Christ) cried, travailing in
birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven;
and behold a great red dragon (Satan), having seven
heads
and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his (Satan) tail drew the third part of the stars
(fallen angels) of heaven,
and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon (Satan)
stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to be
delivered,
for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she (Israel) brought forth a man child (Christ), who was to
rule all
nations with a rod of iron: and her child (Christ) was
caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman (Church) fled into the wilderness, where
she hath a place prepared of God, that they should
feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore
days.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his
angels
fought against the dragon (Satan); and the dragon
(Satan) fought and
his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any
more in heaven.
And the great dragon (Satan) was cast out, that old
serpent,
called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole
world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels
were cast out with him (Satan). Luke 10:18 (KJV)
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is
come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our
God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of
our brethren (Satan) is cast down, which accused
them before
our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,
and by the word of their testimony; and they loved
not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in
them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the
sea!
for the devil (Satan) is come down unto you, having
great wrath,
because he (Satan) knoweth that he (Satan) hath
but a short time.
And when the dragon (Satan) saw that he was cast
unto the
earth, he persecuted the woman (Church) which brought
forth
the man child (Christ).
And to the woman (Church) were given two wings of a
great
eagle, that she (Church) might fly into the wilderness,
into her
place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and
half a time, from the face of the serpent (Satan).
And the serpent (Satan) cast out of his mouth water as
a flood
after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried
away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened
her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon
cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman (Church),
and went to
make war with the remnant of her seed (Disciples), which keep
the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus
Christ.

..Spiritual Israel became the Church after Christ.
 
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