a Question for the Premillennialists

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A

AnandaHya

Guest
EG please ignore the post where I copy and pasted Ada's scripture quotes. I didn't ck them all before just read the words. the scriptures don't match his words at all. my apologies.
I can give you new scripture concerning the unfaithfulness of some who claim to be Israel or God's chosen people but are not. they who say they are Jews but are really the synagogue of Satan.

there are TWO women. ONE gave birth to Christ, she is blessed, she is the faithful Mother Israel.

the other is the Whore is UNFAITHFUL Israel whose father is Satan NOT God. She whored after other gods. She was supposed to be married to GOD alone but she took other lovers, other gods. Jezebel is a whore, who did she whore with? OTHER GODS.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
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You forgot one!

first. Scripture was not written in verse chapter form. Men added these. so you should read it like a book.

second. If you study rev 19 and 20 you will see a sequence. (especially if you remove the verse chapter form)


Rev 19:
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

If we stop here. You might have a point. But fortunately for those of us who really want to know. we can see it does not stop here. Because chapter 20 starts like this.

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

You see, IT IS IMMEDIATELY AFTER THIS BATTLE, AND Christ's RETURN WHEN SATAN IS BOUND. for how long?? 1000 years.

the battle you are speaking of does not happen until the end of the 1000 years:


7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

so we see, After the war of NATIONS in which they try to attack Jerusalem and are defeated by Christ's return (in which the birds are full of their flesh) we then see the 100 year kingdom. THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED.

After this. Satan is released. Another war is ATTEMPTED. but is stopped before it even gets going.

THEN the earth is destroyed and a new heaven and new earth (following judgment day)

You see, The THEN at the start of chapter 20 shows that it was a continuation of Thought to john. Not a new chapter or idea. it is saying. This happened first, THEN that happened.
the book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
because you are being illogical and no you haven't listened at all because you haven't addressed any of the points made but continue posting what you believe.

Is the Gold, white garments and Eye salve literal or spiritual items being sold?
I am only being illogical to you. Because you refuse to look at what I am saying. And expect me to drop everything and just accept what you say as gospel truth, when I can't because I do not see things as you do.

Nothing is being sold. Do we have to buy our salvation and christian maturity? God is using symbolism to tell us not to work for things which will not last but for things which last forever. The salvae is to heal our blind eyes. Why can't you see that??


I understand what you are saying but I believe you are WRONG. the BRIDE of CHRIST is the CHURCH. Has ALWAYS Been the church. GOD married Israel who is the WOMAN clothed in twelve stars in Revelation 12.

No you do not understand still.

God gave isreal the opportunity to be his representative to the world. They failed. so he took it away and gave it to the gentiles. The church was supposed to be represented by Isreal. but they screwed up. They STILL are his elect (see romans 11) even though they are in sin. and at a future time, just ass the OT prophets tell us, and Paul tells us, (after the gentile church has fallen away into apostacy, God will remove th eblindness of Israel, and restor them as his representative. Gods promises to them have not been taken away, God does not go back on his promises. MEN DO.


God tells them over and over, they PLAY the harlot. Not that they ARE the harlot.

do you believe that WOMAN and the Harlot the same person?
If I am a man, and I sleep with a harlot. I PLAY THE HARLOT.

If I am a woman, and I get a womans husband to sleep with me. I AM THE HARLOT.


If you would study more you would see this.


Exodus 34:10–13 (NKJV)
10 And He said: “Behold, I make a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation; and all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the Lord. For it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. 11 Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 12 Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst.13 But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images
14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15 lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, 16 and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods.

Leviticus 17:7 (NKJV)
7 They shall no more offer their sacrifices to demons, after whom they have played the harlot. This shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations.” ’

God even prophesied this would happen!!

Deuteronomy 31:16–17 (NKJV)
16 And the Lord said to Moses: “Behold, you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. 17 Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’



Not only this. the word

2181. זָנָה zânâh, zaw-naw´; a prim. root [highly fed and therefore wanton]; to commit adultery
(usually of the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment); fig. to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Jehovah):—(cause to) commit fornication, × continually, × great, (be an, play the) harlot, (cause to be, play the) whore, (commit, fall to) whoredom, (cause to) go a-whoring, whorish.

Strong, J., S.T.D., LL.D. (2009). Vol. 2: A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (35). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

If you would just study, and get the salve God wanted you to get so you could see. you might see what I am saying


didn't say they were. said they were located in the same realm as She is, in the SPIRIT realm.

yes SHE is the woman in Revelation 12 NOT the Harlot.
Youir right. SHE IS NOT THE HARLOT. Babylon and her religious system IS


no they are in the spirit realm. and yes the corrupt part of Israel, the Harlot, the Vipers and the children of Satan who make up the Harlot got most of their beliefs from ancient Babylon.

Yes. they Commited adultry with babylon. Yet BABYLON is still the harlot. NOT Isreal. Israel was not the center of babylonian mysteries. never has, never will be. They play with her idolotry yes, Just as God told moses they would. BUT THEY ARE NOT THE HARLOT




why was she riding them then? have you figured that out yet?

Where do you think she Got her power?? These kings ruled the world. If they did not empower her she would be dead. They empowered her until her usefulness wore out. And then when she becomes a threat to them. they destroy her. IT is NOT HARD




you can keep your two kingdoms belief, help Satan set up a kingdom on Earth to do war with Jesus and pretend it Christian. Create another Harlot and demonize people as being followers of the Beast to justify hatred and defending a fake Earthly kingdom instead of showing God's love and telling them of JESUS and His salvation.
What does this have to do with what we are talking about?

The harlot has great power in the world (even today) The new preince could not go against her in the beginning. He had to use her to get people to follow him. Because he comes as a prince of peace. But he must destroy her before he makes himself known. Because she would not follow him. and her power would be to great.


the reason why they didn't accept Jesus is because they were expecting an Earthly Kingdom and reign with Him.
Yep. Just as prophesied in the OT. They did not realise the "suffering servant" must come before the "king messiah" comes.

It hasn't changed much.

People still look to have the power of ruling over sinners instead of looking to the New Heaven and the New Earth when all evil will be destroyed, when no one will be above another but Jesus will walk amongst His people.
I look for it everyday. But I also prepare myself as scripture warns me too for end times. a time Jesus says will be horrible and sever such as never has been seen/ It is dangerous to believe it has already happened.
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG please ignore the post where I copy and pasted Ada's scripture quotes. I didn't ck them all before just read the words. the scriptures don't match his words at all. my apologies.
I can give you new scripture concerning the unfaithfulness of some who claim to be Israel or God's chosen people but are not. they who say they are Jews but are really the synagogue of Satan.

there are TWO women. ONE gave birth to Christ, she is blessed, she is the faithful Mother Israel.

the other is the Whore is UNFAITHFUL Israel whose father is Satan NOT God. She whored after other gods. She was supposed to be married to GOD alone but she took other lovers, other gods. Jezebel is a whore, who did she whore with? OTHER GODS.
I agree. there are many who call themselves Gods children but are really not. This is not just an Israely thing, it also happens in the church.

Isreal gave birth to Christ. Not spiritual. But physical. All Israel are elect (not all are saved) as paul says, one day they will ALL rfepent, and they will ALL be saved. Until then God has blinded them.

Rev 12 says the woman (isreal) will run to the hills. Like God told them to. (when you see the abomination spoken of by daniel the prophet. Run to the hills)

God protects her. Even though they have rejected him.. why?? God made a promise to them as a nation. God can't go back on his promises.


Since God is protecting Isreal. Satan turns his attack on gentile believers and goes after them. As God says, whoever endures to the end will be saved (brought into the kingdom with him) This is physical, not spiritual.

I am not defending Isreal. I am trying to show God will still keep his promise to them, even through their unbelief and harlotry. He promised them.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
the book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
I never said the book was. But I proved the end of Chapter 19 and the begining of chapter 20 was. Unless you think God screwd up and put the word "THEN" in the begining of chapter 20 for no reason.

Do you understand language?

This happens.

then

that happens.

Then makes it chronological.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
The harlot has great power in the world (even today) The new preince could not go against her in the beginning. He had to use her to get people to follow him. Because he comes as a prince of peace. But he must destroy her before he makes himself known. Because she would not follow him. and her power would be to great. [/B]
wait where does it say that "the new prince" will come as a "prince of peace" do you get this from your misunderstanding of Daniel 9?

I look for it everyday.

But I also prepare myself as scripture warns me too for end times.

a time Jesus says will be horrible and sever such as never has been seen/ It is dangerous to believe it has already happened.

yes it will be. Satan gathering people to war against God and His commandments will be ugly to see.

I'm not deny Satan's deception and God's punishment of him and others who follow him will be awful.

I'm just saying we are farther along then you think and there is more deception in the concept of an Earthly Kingdom BEFORE the destruction of the OLD Earth that opens the door that should not be there.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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I never said the book was. But I proved the end of Chapter 19 and the begining of chapter 20 was. Unless you think God screwd up and put the word "THEN" in the begining of chapter 20 for no reason.
the word THEN is not there, look again.

Rev 19 happens AFTER Rev 20.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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If you believe that the thousand years
happens AFTER the 2nd coming of Christ
then why are you so ignorant regarding the parable
of the wheat and the weed?

PS: by the way the word "millennial" is only used
when the term "thousand" are taken as literal.
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares is talking about when the angels cast the wicked into Hell and the righteous are gathered into the Lord's "barn". When do you believe that happens? Jesus returns with all His saints at the second coming: Zechariah 14, 1 Thesalonians 3:13, Revelation 19. So we must already be with the Lord before the Second coming. The Millenial Reign will be after God has cast the wicked in Hell and gathered the saints but it is literally a thousand years. I do not see why the Parable of the Weat and the Tares would make the thousand year reign not literal.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares is talking about when the angels cast the wicked into Hell and the righteous are gathered into the Lord's "barn". When do you believe that happens?
when do you think does that happen?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares is talking about when the angels cast the wicked into Hell and the righteous are gathered into the Lord's "barn". When do you believe that happens? Jesus returns with all His saints at the second coming: Zechariah 14, 1 Thesalonians 3:13, Revelation 19. So we must already be with the Lord before the Second coming. The Millenial Reign will be after God has cast the wicked in Hell and gathered the saints but it is literally a thousand years. I do not see why the Parable of the Weat and the Tares would make the thousand year reign not literal.
No Jonathan that is where we disagree. I believe that the wheat and tares get separated during the WHITE THRONE Judgement happens after Satan is released and has deceived the nations again, after He was bound for a 1000 years. the wicked are not judged and destroyed until that time when they come before the white throne judgment. they just suffer and die, unrepentant and cursing God. all evil is not destroyed until the White throne and the NEW Earth and NEW Heaven is established.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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No Jonathan that is where we disagree. I believe that the wheat and tares get separated during the WHITE THRONE Judgement happens after Satan is released and has deceived the nations again, after He was bound for a 1000 years. the wicked are not judged and destroyed until that time when they come before the white throne judgment. they just suffer and die, unrepentant and cursing God. all evil is not destroyed until the White throne and the NEW Earth and NEW Heaven is established.
ana, this is the trouble of dispensationalists they see revelation as literal.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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the word THEN is not there, look again.

Rev 19 happens AFTER Rev 20.
Some versions have the word "then" in Rev 20:1 (ESV)

Chapter 20 happens after chapter 19. It is AFTER armageddon that the millennial kingdom will be set up.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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Literally? that does not add up.
Sure it does. The rapture will happen before the trib. The second coming happens at the end of the trib. Christians will already be with Christ.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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ana, this is the trouble of dispensationalists they see revelation as literal.
The trouble amills have is that they see revelation as symbolic. Parts of it are, but you cannot symbolize everything away.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
Some versions have the word "then" in Rev 20:1 (ESV)

Chapter 20 happens after chapter 19. It is AFTER armageddon that the millennial kingdom will be set up.
However,
CHapter 19 is not the last battle.before Jesus destroys this world and creates a NEW Heaven and NEW Earth. Satan still is released and will deceive the world again. his favorite tactic is to pretend that prophecies that God has already fulfilled haven't happened and misuse scripture to get people to do things because of "promises" God made them that are sinful and testing and grieving to the Holy Spirit.

Like rule this Earthly sinful world in the Name of Christ before He comes back and destroys and replaces it all. Or fall for the lie that the Son of Perdition (who is Satan released from his bounds) is really Jesus returned to start the 1000 year earthly reign.

that's one of the methods Satan will use to gather his army against God and His people.