A Saint's Guide to Sinning Less
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Areil - I am somewhat jaded by Ben. It was Ben who constructed a blow by blow theory how christian can actively sin and be forgiven at the same time.
It was Ben who suggested reading the law and talking about it was evil.
Ideas like that do not go away in my mind. I do not mind if people change, but this is all so extreme, as some would say I challenge the base assumptions.
It is also Ben who supports Total inability in his thoughts, which EG claims no one holds.
It was Ben who suggested reading the law and talking about it was evil.
Ideas like that do not go away in my mind. I do not mind if people change, but this is all so extreme, as some would say I challenge the base assumptions.
It is also Ben who supports Total inability in his thoughts, which EG claims no one holds.
A
I haven't really talked to Ben and he did dig up a hyper grace thread because he was proud of it and thinks it will help his case concerning hyper grace....so, I guess the fact you still hold to your preconcepts of his beliefs may not be unwarranted.
However, perhaps we could ask him what he believes in the topic now, instead of assuming things?
However, perhaps we could ask him what he believes in the topic now, instead of assuming things?
What readers have to realise is most of this group here are the jaded remains of traditional churches, legalists, conformists who have dumped this and been set free, to be just accepted. They claim they have been where you are now in the church and want you to listen to go to where they are now. Problem is this assumes they are right, and you are actually where they were, ie over the top legalists. If not, why would you want to be where they are now, which is a solution to a problem you do not have. Quite a quandry there, which I do not think they have quite woken up to....lol Maybe they are where they are now because it is better than giving up faith completely but not far off it.
A
What Peter needs to realise is that when he talks in such a manner, he gives the appearance of a know it all who,believes himself,superior to both his audience and the,people he is gossiping about.
Therefore alienating and causing division when there otherwise might have been peaceful civilised discussion.
Therefore alienating and causing division when there otherwise might have been peaceful civilised discussion.
A
I prefer to listen and converse with "them" because I believe they are children of God and want to encourage and uplift one another to walk in a manner pleasing to God.
If you do not wish such fellowship, I suggest you find another thread to gossip and tell "readers" what you imagine you know about what so and so thinks or believes.
If you do not wish such fellowship, I suggest you find another thread to gossip and tell "readers" what you imagine you know about what so and so thinks or believes.
You tickle me with your hypocrisy. You get so blinded trying to dispute simple Bible verses, that I imagine you don't even know the silly things you do.
You tried to take those words directly off a Joseph Prince site, and act like they were yours. But you goofed. Joseph Prince said they ALREADY felt condemned (in their own minds) when they saw they were naked. They had had no contact with God, whatsoever, since eating the fruit........ yet they already felt condemned. They were not fearing that they would be condemned when they finally saw God... simply because they disobeyed. They already, now, had that brand of self-loathing thinking inside them with their new knowledge of evil.
Try sticking with your own words. You might not confuse thoughts and concepts you don't understand that way.
But it is great that we have you going to his sites to find things to print.
You tried to take those words directly off a Joseph Prince site, and act like they were yours. But you goofed. Joseph Prince said they ALREADY felt condemned (in their own minds) when they saw they were naked. They had had no contact with God, whatsoever, since eating the fruit........ yet they already felt condemned. They were not fearing that they would be condemned when they finally saw God... simply because they disobeyed. They already, now, had that brand of self-loathing thinking inside them with their new knowledge of evil.
Try sticking with your own words. You might not confuse thoughts and concepts you don't understand that way.
But it is great that we have you going to his sites to find things to print.
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Ariel - Who is friend and who is foe? You assume these people want to engage and are interested in what you have to offer. If by engaging on a reasonable level you get judged, rejected and ignored, then there is good reason to suggest things are not as they seem.
Let me put this into context. I come and say love is the power of Jesus. "Rubbish, go away you anti gifts person, you have knowledge but no spirit, you are evil, you divide the church, your communion is with satan."
Why is it this one group, over the years turn out to be from the same general spiritual heritage? Why is it the response is the same and the rejection total? Why is it mysticism, the spiritual experience today is of more importance than the basics of the faith?
So now rather than just saying all are the same, I want a bit more disclosure, a bit more honesty, and a clearer definition of where they stand.
If I am saying we can walk in real righteousness today, a day without sin, and they say in general, rubbish you evil person, that is a conflict. This has never been about division or making the body whole but declaring and working through faith positions. Do we worship God, and is He concerned with our beliefs and our daily lives? Are peoples faith so weak, to ask these questions is fearful, dangerous, full of emptiness, or is their faith really just a compromise?
I do not mind people being passive, but to become an enemy and say an honest exploration is driven by the enemy is something else. And that at its core is the accusation made against me. I am not superior to anyone, or gossiping, this is real experience and real words and reactions they have provided. So I am prepared simply to say and ask why?
Let me put this into context. I come and say love is the power of Jesus. "Rubbish, go away you anti gifts person, you have knowledge but no spirit, you are evil, you divide the church, your communion is with satan."
Why is it this one group, over the years turn out to be from the same general spiritual heritage? Why is it the response is the same and the rejection total? Why is it mysticism, the spiritual experience today is of more importance than the basics of the faith?
So now rather than just saying all are the same, I want a bit more disclosure, a bit more honesty, and a clearer definition of where they stand.
If I am saying we can walk in real righteousness today, a day without sin, and they say in general, rubbish you evil person, that is a conflict. This has never been about division or making the body whole but declaring and working through faith positions. Do we worship God, and is He concerned with our beliefs and our daily lives? Are peoples faith so weak, to ask these questions is fearful, dangerous, full of emptiness, or is their faith really just a compromise?
I do not mind people being passive, but to become an enemy and say an honest exploration is driven by the enemy is something else. And that at its core is the accusation made against me. I am not superior to anyone, or gossiping, this is real experience and real words and reactions they have provided. So I am prepared simply to say and ask why?
Does love conquer all?
The hardest thing for me was to see innocense and need beaten down by disappointment.
I talked to one lady in my church one day about emotional openness. I was enthusiastic.
Unfortunately unknown to me she had recently lost a family member. I got told in effect that this was just playing words and real pain was never dealt with. I felt hurt, and withdrew.
Now pain is often used as a weapon like this to silence openness of need, because deep down it is all fake.
Except it is not fake at all, and Jesus is not some made up idea, and pain, really, really matters.
Years later I have shared and been open with this lady and we have a good relationship.
People need to know we are people who love from the heart, who stand where others do not care or disappear, that there is an eternal reference point in the cross.
When any group claim the name christian but do not know this reality, they are lying. No greater thing can a man lay down His life for his friends and even greater still His enemies.
If anyone walks away from this they walk away from Jesus.
The hardest thing for me was to see innocense and need beaten down by disappointment.
I talked to one lady in my church one day about emotional openness. I was enthusiastic.
Unfortunately unknown to me she had recently lost a family member. I got told in effect that this was just playing words and real pain was never dealt with. I felt hurt, and withdrew.
Now pain is often used as a weapon like this to silence openness of need, because deep down it is all fake.
Except it is not fake at all, and Jesus is not some made up idea, and pain, really, really matters.
Years later I have shared and been open with this lady and we have a good relationship.
People need to know we are people who love from the heart, who stand where others do not care or disappear, that there is an eternal reference point in the cross.
When any group claim the name christian but do not know this reality, they are lying. No greater thing can a man lay down His life for his friends and even greater still His enemies.
If anyone walks away from this they walk away from Jesus.
* You will not find one place in all of my posts where I stated that. The law is holy, just and good. It just has no power within itself to make you holy, just and good. Sin's dominion is broken under grace, and not law. This is scriptural.
To Ariel: You had some questions...
Can you actively sin and still be forgiven? The underlying inquiry here is a question that insinuates a license to sin. No, we do not have a license to sin. VVe are set free from sin's dominion by God's grace. Now, how does one define actively sinning? Do you consider yourself sinless, in thought and deed? I'd guess you don't. Is that active? Since when has sinning not been active? The point I am making is that God's grace is sufficient. He no longer condemns us because Jesus took care of sin at the cross (reconciling us to God). So while we do not have a license to sin, His grace is sufficient for when we do sin. Can anyone here say they have not actively sinned before? Intentionally, not on accident? His grace is sufficient. Get up, keep on moving forward in your upward calling.
Your second question about the law being evil to read, no it isn't evil. See my response above, it is holy, just and good. In the Torah we see types and shadows of the things to come, and of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. There are many benefits to reading it.
Thirdly, I define total inability with sanctification in mind. Every day, month, and year God is working on us and with us to bring us to the revelation of our victory over sin found in Christ. VVe still sin, yes. Yet God is faithful and sanctifies us, and we are learning and continuing to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Can anyone claim to be walking sinless in this life, beyond Jesus? It may be possible with God, but improbable in my mind. Has it happened? Only God knows.
PS: 2000th post, whoo hoo!
To Ariel: You had some questions...
Can you actively sin and still be forgiven? The underlying inquiry here is a question that insinuates a license to sin. No, we do not have a license to sin. VVe are set free from sin's dominion by God's grace. Now, how does one define actively sinning? Do you consider yourself sinless, in thought and deed? I'd guess you don't. Is that active? Since when has sinning not been active? The point I am making is that God's grace is sufficient. He no longer condemns us because Jesus took care of sin at the cross (reconciling us to God). So while we do not have a license to sin, His grace is sufficient for when we do sin. Can anyone here say they have not actively sinned before? Intentionally, not on accident? His grace is sufficient. Get up, keep on moving forward in your upward calling.
Your second question about the law being evil to read, no it isn't evil. See my response above, it is holy, just and good. In the Torah we see types and shadows of the things to come, and of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. There are many benefits to reading it.
Thirdly, I define total inability with sanctification in mind. Every day, month, and year God is working on us and with us to bring us to the revelation of our victory over sin found in Christ. VVe still sin, yes. Yet God is faithful and sanctifies us, and we are learning and continuing to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Can anyone claim to be walking sinless in this life, beyond Jesus? It may be possible with God, but improbable in my mind. Has it happened? Only God knows.
PS: 2000th post, whoo hoo!
It was Ben who suggested reading the law and talking about it was evil.*
Ideas like that do not go away in my mind. I do not mind if people change, but this is all so extreme, as some would say I challenge the base assumptions.
It is also Ben who supports Total inability in his thoughts, which EG claims no one holds.
* You will not find one place in all of my posts where I stated that. The law is holy, just and good. It just has no power within itself to make you holy, just and good. Sin's dominion is broken under grace, and not law. This is scriptural.
Your second question about the law being evil to read, no it isn't evil. See my response above, it is holy, just and good. In the Torah we see types and shadows of the things to come, and of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. There are many benefits to reading it.
Thirdly, I define total inability with sanctification in mind. Every day, month, and year God is working on us and with us to bring us to the revelation of our victory over sin found in Christ. VVe still sin, yes. Yet God is faithful and sanctifies us, and we are learning and continuing to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Can anyone claim to be walking sinless in this life, beyond Jesus? It may be possible with God, but improbable in my mind. Has it happened? Only God knows.
PS: 2000th post, whoo hoo!
Your second question about the law being evil to read, no it isn't evil. See my response above, it is holy, just and good. In the Torah we see types and shadows of the things to come, and of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. There are many benefits to reading it.
Thirdly, I define total inability with sanctification in mind. Every day, month, and year God is working on us and with us to bring us to the revelation of our victory over sin found in Christ. VVe still sin, yes. Yet God is faithful and sanctifies us, and we are learning and continuing to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Can anyone claim to be walking sinless in this life, beyond Jesus? It may be possible with God, but improbable in my mind. Has it happened? Only God knows.
PS: 2000th post, whoo hoo!
There is a continual mis-representing of the truth and statements are made as if they are "real" but they are just a construct of some one's mind.....a "straw-man".
This is the kind of things we have to contend with on a constant basis and thus there is no chance to have any meaningful discussions.
Let's change this so that we can grow and learn from each other's experience in the Lord.
A
Then ask them why directly and don't use phrases like "dear reader" because when you address an audience about what you think they said based on the hurt they have caused you by calling you an enemy and saying to you....
Rubbish, go away you anti gifts person, you have knowledge but no spirit, you are evil, you divide the church, your communion is with satan."
It becomes gossip, whether you intend it to be are not.
No one likes to be called out on gossip. I know I didn't but God is helping me recognise it and stop myself from listening to or repeating gossip when I recognise it.
Those words hurt. Have you forgiven the ones who spoke them?
Or have you allowed Satan a foothold in your heart to make words like hyper grace, word of faith, etc a trigger to remind you of your abuse and blind you to the person you are actually talking to?
It is a new day, let us live as new creations in Christ. Free of past hurts and pain and able to forgive and love all.
Rubbish, go away you anti gifts person, you have knowledge but no spirit, you are evil, you divide the church, your communion is with satan."
It becomes gossip, whether you intend it to be are not.
No one likes to be called out on gossip. I know I didn't but God is helping me recognise it and stop myself from listening to or repeating gossip when I recognise it.
Those words hurt. Have you forgiven the ones who spoke them?
Or have you allowed Satan a foothold in your heart to make words like hyper grace, word of faith, etc a trigger to remind you of your abuse and blind you to the person you are actually talking to?
It is a new day, let us live as new creations in Christ. Free of past hurts and pain and able to forgive and love all.
Got to say guys, lying is not a good thing to do on a forum.
I can quote all the items I am talking about.
You regard me as evil, but that does not work. You choose to make this a battle so I am happy to oblige.
What we are talking about is what you believe not some airy fairy ideas.
Do you think preaching your doctrines and then denying does anything than just make yourselves look stupid.
You hold a different faith to me, and everyday I prove it. Do you think the body of Christ is interested in your attempts to hide these differences when they can be shown so simply?
So why not just declare this is our position and stick to it. The reader can make up their mind rather than hide behind all these inventions. I certainly do not, and you certainly do not agree with me.
I can quote all the items I am talking about.
You regard me as evil, but that does not work. You choose to make this a battle so I am happy to oblige.
What we are talking about is what you believe not some airy fairy ideas.
Do you think preaching your doctrines and then denying does anything than just make yourselves look stupid.
You hold a different faith to me, and everyday I prove it. Do you think the body of Christ is interested in your attempts to hide these differences when they can be shown so simply?
So why not just declare this is our position and stick to it. The reader can make up their mind rather than hide behind all these inventions. I certainly do not, and you certainly do not agree with me.