A Saint's Guide to Sinning Less

[PeterJens]

So you're hurt

I have to apologise. I am not coming to you as my judges, to approve or disparage me.

I am just sharing what the Lord has done in my life, and what my view is of following Jesus.
I am then reacting to your positions and attempt to hide your core positions amongst the general concepts of scripture and christian tradition. My analysis once complete just presents the results.

Its power is simply shown by whether over time people agree or disagree. It is brutal, but it works.
Islam is a form of legalism without interlectual assent or criticism. Its foundation is everything else is corrupt.

Hyper-grace is a form of mysticism upon which the believer experiences God, with a general guide of scripture.
Most of the language is just looking for justifications of the belief system, rather than springing from scripture.

What is always confusing is layering of ideas that matter with those that are irrelevant to the core belief.

Believers can agree with whoever and whatever they like as long as it is not restrictive or condemning.
As soon as someone starts defining things or insisting on morality, they are evil, the enemy.

This explains why in a conversation opponents positions are agreed with, because it is not the points that matter just the open or closed nature of the contribution. This makes it a non-interlectual, non-doctrinal faith, the more open the better.

It is also why some groups are now universalists and no longer need scripture as their basis for spiritual interaction.

So ofcourse resolution, adoption, becoming one is their goal and encouragement, because the disputes and division are the problem not the actual issues. But maybe you will see what type of belief system you are dealing with now, and how to react.

 

[BenFTW]

I have to apologise. I am not coming to you as my judges, to approve or disparage me.

I am just sharing what the Lord has done in my life, and what my view is of following Jesus.
I am then reacting to your positions and attempt to hide your core positions amongst the general concepts of scripture and christian tradition. My analysis once complete just presents the results.

Its power is simply shown by whether over time people agree or disagree. It is brutal, but it works.
Islam is a form of legalism without interlectual assent or criticism. Its foundation is everything else is corrupt.

Hyper-grace is a form of mysticism upon which the believer experiences God, with a general guide of scripture.
Most of the language is just looking for justifications of the belief system, rather than springing from scripture.

What is always confusing is layering of ideas that matter with those that are irrelevant to the core belief.

Believers can agree with whoever and whatever they like as long as it is not restrictive or condemning.
As soon as someone starts defining things or insisting on morality, they are evil, the enemy.

This explains why in a conversation opponents positions are agreed with, because it is not the points that matter just the open or closed nature of the contribution. This makes it a non-interlectual, non-doctrinal faith, the more open the better.

It is also why some groups are now universalists and no longer need scripture as their basis for spiritual interaction.

So ofcourse resolution, adoption, becoming one is their goal and encouragement, because the disputes and division are the problem not the actual issues. But maybe you will see what type of belief system you are dealing with now, and how to react.

You making a call to holy living is not something I am, nor others (from the grace "crowd"), opposed to. They more often than not, if it isn't full of condemnation, will give you an amen. VVe are to live righteously because grace teaches us that. Out of love, and not fear.

Titus 2:11-14 King James Version (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is what scripture has to say about religious traditions.

Mark 7:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mark 7:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

[SUP]9 [/SUP] He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

 

[Jimbone]

I think one, first, has to WANT to hear, let alone, understand. When a person has the attitude, "I don't want to hear you.", it is doubtful they ever will ever move one inch beyond that stubborn refusal.

That goes BOTH ways buddy, and it's funny how grace is SO important until someone questions your interpretation and/or definition of what EXACTLY what you mean and think God's grace is. It's so slippery and shifting you can double speak it, no SOLID foundation I've seen nailed down yet. Then it is defense, attack, defense, attack. Where's the grace then huh? You play so innocent Willie, yet you are just as guilty as the people you condemn, and YES you DO condemn. Grace huh? LOL

 

[BenFTW]

That goes BOTH ways buddy, and it's funny how grace is SO important until someone questions your interpretation and/or definition of what EXACTLY what you mean and think God's grace is. It's so slippery and shifting you can double speak it, no SOLID foundation I've seen nailed down yet. Then it is defense, attack, defense, attack. Where's the grace then huh? You play so innocent Willie, yet you are just as guilty as the people you condemn, and YES you DO condemn. Grace huh? LOL

And this was? An attack? lol Seems you two need some healing, Jimbone.

 

[Johnlove]

A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ our Lord and God, and lives as Jesus lived. Jesus always did his Father in heaven’s will. A Christian also always does God’s will. Jesus made it possible for those who he called to defeat Satan/sin.

God’s also made it possible for those who he has called to become children of God. God’s Children always do their Father’s will.

(1 John 2:4 -6) “Anyone who says, 'I know him', and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, refusing to admit the truth." but when anyone does obey what he has said, God's love comes to perfection in him." We can be sure that we are in God only when the one who claims to be living in him is living the same kind of life as Christ lived.” Jerusalem Bible

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(1 John 2:6) “Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”

(Romans 8:1-4) “The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

 

[JennaLeanne]

Ben my brother not that u need me too but I feel I wanna hold your back here... I am finding it very difficult to understand how anyone can possibly pick a negative out of anything your saying?? Everything you speak is of grace, Your posts are awesome, I love reading all that you write, As the scripture says the truth will bear witness to your spirit. When I read what u write My spirit (not my mind, lets all agree they are complete opposite of one another) jumps up and down like AMEN AMEN AMEN. The sad thing here is that the word grace is hated so much.. Im not sure why as to me its the most sweet sounding word I have ever heard... Be encouraged my brother. Love ya xxxxxx

 

[PeterJens]

You making a call to holy living is not something I am, nor others (from the grace "crowd"), opposed to. They more often than not, if it isn't full of condemnation, will give you an amen. VVe are to live righteously because grace teaches us that. Out of love, and not fear.

Titus 2:11-14 King James Version (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

"Holy living is not something you are opposed to."

The question I have been asking is not a nice extra, something on your resume, but does scripture teach anybody achieved this and is it something we should expect.

It appears that because of defeat, compromise, legalism, licensiousness etc the question is just being dismissed.
Knowing the Lord, he has people living holy lives quietly, in secret, everywhere.

The theology is missing though, because the goal has often been a pipe dream, rather than realised.
I myself find the language unusual, and not sure where to place it.

So my next step is to explore where people are on the issues.
Hyper-legalism is one. Making everything too hard or extreme
Liberalism is another. Everything is ok, it is how you look at it that matters.
Self condemnation. Peoples own personal standards mixed with Gods
Ignorance. Not understanding morality and its role
Arrogance. How can we claim something we do not have
Corrupt heart. Our emotions run wild, what is that all about

I have not finished this, and based on current discussions am more optimistic, that
this is Jesus's expectation of our lives, but we need to get a handle on how and who we are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Holy living is not something you are opposed to."

The question I have been asking is not a nice extra, something on your resume, but does scripture teach anybody achieved this and is it something we should expect.

It appears that because of defeat, compromise, legalism, licensiousness etc the question is just being dismissed.
Knowing the Lord, he has people living holy lives quietly, in secret, everywhere.

The theology is missing though, because the goal has often been a pipe dream, rather than realised.
I myself find the language unusual, and not sure where to place it.

So my next step is to explore where people are on the issues.
Hyper-legalism is one. Making everything too hard or extreme
Liberalism is another. Everything is ok, it is how you look at it that matters.
Self condemnation. Peoples own personal standards mixed with Gods
Ignorance. Not understanding morality and its role
Arrogance. How can we claim something we do not have
Corrupt heart. Our emotions run wild, what is that all about

I have not finished this, and based on current discussions am more optimistic, that
this is Jesus's expectation of our lives, but we need to get a handle on how and who we are.

God does not have people in secret. He can;t use is if we are in secret,

it is our secret lives that get us in trouble because it is hidden and not able to be challenged.. or disciples.

 

[PeterJens]

Why I wonder about our approaches

A woman who created a course on anxiety management is a classic case.
A spirit filled woman who lost it so badly ended up having electric convulsive treatments
entered psychiatric hospitals, powerful drugs etc.

Her solution in the end - accepting everyone gets anxious, do not let your anxiousness
build on your anxious feeling so it escalates to panic attacks, etc.

She tried prayer, healing the lot. So it is not God taking control or our
bodies out of control, it is us applying Gods guidance to our lives and learning
who we are in His love and Holy Spirit. It is all their in scripture, we just miss it.

Why does it matter to me? I want to walk as Jesus walked.

 

[PeterJens]

The Lord keeping his faithful hidden from being killed

Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
He replied, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”...
"Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”
1 Kings 19:13-18

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Lord keeping his faithful hidden from being killed

Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
He replied, “I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”...
"Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”
1 Kings 19:13-18

those 7000 did not hide. It does not say God hid them, It says he kept them faithful

However Elijah was hiding do to lack of faith. thus elijah was in sin. because he did not trust God could protect him from the ruler who wanted to kill him.

 

[Willie-T]

Ben my brother not that u need me too but I feel I wanna hold your back here... I am finding it very difficult to understand how anyone can possibly pick a negative out of anything your saying?? Everything you speak is of grace, Your posts are awesome, I love reading all that you write, As the scripture says the truth will bear witness to your spirit. When I read what u write My spirit (not my mind, lets all agree they are complete opposite of one another) jumps up and down like AMEN AMEN AMEN. The sad thing here is that the word grace is hated so much.. Im not sure why as to me its the most sweet sounding word I have ever heard... Be encouraged my brother. Love ya xxxxxx

Remember, the same concept was hated (actually, "feared" because of what they felt they would lose control of) by the Religionists of Paul's day. It can be a frightful thing to work hard to be in control (of anything), only to be told you never HAD control in the first place, and are dependent, exclusively, upon what someone else (Jesus) did for you.

 

[Grace777x70]

Remember, the same concept was hated (actually, "feared" because of what they felt they would lose control of) by the Religionists of Paul's day. It can be a frightful thing to work hard to be in control (of anything), only to be told you never HAD control in the first place, and are dependent, exclusively, upon what someone else (Jesus) did for you.

This is so true...religion needs to be in control. This video below talks all about what religion tries to do as this teacher goes through the book of Acts and shows how religion rears it's ugly head in hate and maliciousness and slander.

It's an eye-opener for those that have an interest in how religion seeks to dominate the believer and in effect tries to separate them from the grace of Christ - all in the name of "defending God and they are supposedly ministers of righteousness".


[video=vimeo;11804054]https://vimeo.com/11804054[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

The hidden 7000

They were hidden else they would have been killed. It is quite a simple concept, but then it appears some people find simple concepts hard to accept.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The hidden 7000

They were hidden else they would have been killed. It is quite a simple concept, but then it appears some people find simple concepts hard to accept.

Your adding to scripture. It does not say that peter. It says they did not bow to Baal, not that he hid them,

Stick to the word of God you can not get into trouble that way..

God does not need to hide people to protect them, where is your faith peter?

 

[BenFTW]

"Holy living is not something you are opposed to."

The question I have been asking is not a nice extra, something on your resume, but does scripture teach anybody achieved this and is it something we should expect.

It appears that because of defeat, compromise, legalism, licensiousness etc the question is just being dismissed.
Knowing the Lord, he has people living holy lives quietly, in secret, everywhere.

The theology is missing though, because the goal has often been a pipe dream, rather than realised.
I myself find the language unusual, and not sure where to place it.

So my next step is to explore where people are on the issues.
Hyper-legalism is one. Making everything too hard or extreme
Liberalism is another. Everything is ok, it is how you look at it that matters.
Self condemnation. Peoples own personal standards mixed with Gods
Ignorance. Not understanding morality and its role
Arrogance. How can we claim something we do not have
Corrupt heart. Our emotions run wild, what is that all about

I have not finished this, and based on current discussions am more optimistic, that
this is Jesus's expectation of our lives, but we need to get a handle on how and who we are.

VVhich is precisely the point of this thread. Identity.

 

[JennaLeanne]

Remember, the same concept was hated (actually, "feared" because of what they felt they would lose control of) by the Religionists of Paul's day. It can be a frightful thing to work hard to be in control (of anything), only to be told you never HAD control in the first place, and are dependent, exclusively, upon what someone else (Jesus) did for you.

Amen yes Willie.. So true.. Self preservation is the deception.. To be self centred is to be Satan centred, Our eyes off the creator and sustainer of ALL things.. Without him we wouldn't be here so to think we can do anything other than him is the root of all evil.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

God does not have people in secret. He can;t use is if we are in secret,

it is our secret lives that get us in trouble because it is hidden and not able to be challenged.. or disciples.

Wow! I just saw those words in a totally different way than you were seeing them. Not an opposing way - just a different way.

"It is our secret lives that get us in trouble because it is hidden and not able to be challenged."
I saw our secret lives as...justifications, excuses, that we use to hide the truth from ourselves. God is not able to challenge and renew our mind about these things because we have hidden them from ourselves. He doesn't slam us on a direct route to all of it because we would get too scared and turn back, like He didn't take them in the desert by the directest route because He said they might be frightened and turn back.
It was just one of those mind flashes.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow! I just saw those words in a totally different way than you were seeing them. Not an opposing way - just a different way.

"It is our secret lives that get us in trouble because it is hidden and not able to be challenged."
I saw our secret lives as...justifications, excuses, that we use to hide the truth from ourselves. God is not able to challenge and renew our mind about these things because we have hidden them from ourselves. He doesn't slam us on a direct route to all of it because we would get too scared and turn back, like He didn't take them in the desert by the directest route because He said they might be frightened and turn back.
It was just one of those mind flashes.

I like it

although I will say, Sometimes God does do that.. That is what brought me back to him, reality, It hurt like hell and scared me,, But i needed it, otherwise, i will still be hidden (more than likely dead)