An observation in John 5

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#1
Jun 30, 2015
24,680
13,366
113
#1
Hi All...
I've been reading John 5 this evening...

24 Truly, truly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into eternal life.
25 Truly, truly, I say to you an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

I picked up on the 'has eternal life, and does not come into judgment' in v24. It looks to be a completed event. Holding that thought...

V. 25 has Jesus saying, 'an hour is coming, and now is...' This looks to be the time at which Jesus is speaking and not something still yet to come. This is similar to Jn 4:23 where Jesus explains to the woman of Sychar about true worship, and there is a parallel in 4:21 which does not have the 'and now is' part. Holding that thought as well...

There is a part about the Father giving authority to judge to the Son, then in v.28, 'an hour is coming, in which all in the tombs...' So, aren't these the same dead people He referred to in v.25? Maybe, but I don't think so; v.28 doesn't have the 'and now is'. I suspect that the 'hour is coming' in v.28 refers to the time between the crucifixion and resurrection.

It appears to me that in v.25, Jesus is calling the (physically alive) people within earshot, 'dead' as in 'dead in their sins', while in v.28 he was clearly talking about those who were already physically dead. As an aside, this would seem, and I emphasize 'seem', to suggest that those who died prior to Jesus' coming are judged by their deeds, while those during and after are judged by their response to Christ. I'm not holding tight to that idea, just noticing it for now.

Going back to v.24, Jesus is stating that those who believe that He is sent by the Father have eternal life, while in v.25, He is saying the same thing a different way: "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God," as in, those who hear just a man will remain in their sins, but those who hear the Son of God (IOW, they believe that He is sent from God) will live.

I welcome your thoughts and other references. :)
 
ForthAngel

ForthAngel

Senior Member
#2
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#2
Dino246 said:
Hi All...
I've been reading John 5 this evening...

24 Truly, truly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into eternal life.
25 Truly, truly, I say to you an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

I picked up on the 'has eternal life, and does not come into judgment' in v24. It looks to be a completed event. Holding that thought...

V. 25 has Jesus saying, 'an hour is coming, and now is...' This looks to be the time at which Jesus is speaking and not something still yet to come. This is similar to Jn 4:23 where Jesus explains to the woman of Sychar about true worship, and there is a parallel in 4:21 which does not have the 'and now is' part. Holding that thought as well...

There is a part about the Father giving authority to judge to the Son, then in v.28, 'an hour is coming, in which all in the tombs...' So, aren't these the same dead people He referred to in v.25? Maybe, but I don't think so; v.28 doesn't have the 'and now is'. I suspect that the 'hour is coming' in v.28 refers to the time between the crucifixion and resurrection.

It appears to me that in v.25, Jesus is calling the (physically alive) people within earshot, 'dead' as in 'dead in their sins', while in v.28 he was clearly talking about those who were already physically dead. As an aside, this would seem, and I emphasize 'seem', to suggest that those who died prior to Jesus' coming are judged by their deeds, while those during and after are judged by their response to Christ. I'm not holding tight to that idea, just noticing it for now.

Going back to v.24, Jesus is stating that those who believe that He is sent by the Father have eternal life, while in v.25, He is saying the same thing a different way: "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God," as in, those who hear just a man will remain in their sins, but those who hear the Son of God (IOW, they believe that He is sent from God) will live.

I welcome your thoughts and other references. :)
Click to expand...
Maybe the "good deeds" are simply faith and obedience apart from the law? We know Abraham was justified by faith apart from the law, but he was also obedient to God apart from the law (e.g. willing to sacrifice his son which is not in the law). So faith and obedience seem to go together and would constitute a good deed.

Without faith, any good deed is not counted as righteous by God, but a filthy rag.
 
D

DP

Banned
#3
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#3
Dino246 said:
Hi All...
I've been reading John 5 this evening...

24 Truly, truly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into eternal life.
25 Truly, truly, I say to you an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

I picked up on the 'has eternal life, and does not come into judgment' in v24. It looks to be a completed event. Holding that thought...

V. 25 has Jesus saying, 'an hour is coming, and now is...' This looks to be the time at which Jesus is speaking and not something still yet to come. This is similar to Jn 4:23 where Jesus explains to the woman of Sychar about true worship, and there is a parallel in 4:21 which does not have the 'and now is' part. Holding that thought as well...

There is a part about the Father giving authority to judge to the Son, then in v.28, 'an hour is coming, in which all in the tombs...' So, aren't these the same dead people He referred to in v.25? Maybe, but I don't think so; v.28 doesn't have the 'and now is'. I suspect that the 'hour is coming' in v.28 refers to the time between the crucifixion and resurrection.

It appears to me that in v.25, Jesus is calling the (physically alive) people within earshot, 'dead' as in 'dead in their sins', while in v.28 he was clearly talking about those who were already physically dead. As an aside, this would seem, and I emphasize 'seem', to suggest that those who died prior to Jesus' coming are judged by their deeds, while those during and after are judged by their response to Christ. I'm not holding tight to that idea, just noticing it for now.

Going back to v.24, Jesus is stating that those who believe that He is sent by the Father have eternal life, while in v.25, He is saying the same thing a different way: "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God," as in, those who hear just a man will remain in their sins, but those who hear the Son of God (IOW, they believe that He is sent from God) will live.

I welcome your thoughts and other references. :)
Click to expand...
John 5:25 is about the time immediately after Christ's resurrection. See 1 Peter 3 about Jesus preaching to the "spirits in prison", which was a prophecy from Isaiah 42:6-7.

John 5:28-29 is for His second coming at the end of this world, the event of 1 Thess.4 and "last trump" of 1 Cor.15 when the resurrection at the end of this world happens. See also Isaiah 25 about death being swallowed up.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#4
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#4
Yes, there are spiritually dead people who are alive to the flesh and sin, but yet dead to the Spirit because of sin and death. And then of course there are also physically dead people. Jesus spoke of the spiritually dead, when he said let the dead bury their dead, and to those whom He said they had a name that suggested they were alive, but really they were spiritually dead because of sin.

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

That's why I say you can't be "alive" in Christ and at the same time say you are still "in sin", because if you are still "in sin" then you are still "in death".

When we get victory over the mark of the beast, which is sin, then we also get victory over the name, which is death. By the resurrection of Christ, and we together in Him, have passed from the power of sin and death, to the power of His righteousness and Eternal Life. And we are given a new name in Him, which is Life.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#5
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#5
Verse 29 is clear: regardless of what people think they have, only those who do good will inherit life.

Obviously, we can't do anything to earn, or be worthy of, eternal life. But verse 29 makes clear that we can't turn grace into a license to sin.

Therefore consider how you hear, for whoever has, to him [more] will be given, and whoever does not have, even what he thinks [he] has will be taken away from him.” Luke 8:18​
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#6
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#6
Dino246 said:
Hi All...
I've been reading John 5 this evening...

24 Truly, truly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into eternal life.
25 Truly, truly, I say to you an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

I picked up on the 'has eternal life, and does not come into judgment' in v24. It looks to be a completed event. Holding that thought...

V. 25 has Jesus saying, 'an hour is coming, and now is...' This looks to be the time at which Jesus is speaking and not something still yet to come. This is similar to Jn 4:23 where Jesus explains to the woman of Sychar about true worship, and there is a parallel in 4:21 which does not have the 'and now is' part. Holding that thought as well...

There is a part about the Father giving authority to judge to the Son, then in v.28, 'an hour is coming, in which all in the tombs...' So, aren't these the same dead people He referred to in v.25? Maybe, but I don't think so; v.28 doesn't have the 'and now is'. I suspect that the 'hour is coming' in v.28 refers to the time between the crucifixion and resurrection.

It appears to me that in v.25, Jesus is calling the (physically alive) people within earshot, 'dead' as in 'dead in their sins', while in v.28 he was clearly talking about those who were already physically dead. As an aside, this would seem, and I emphasize 'seem', to suggest that those who died prior to Jesus' coming are judged by their deeds, while those during and after are judged by their response to Christ. I'm not holding tight to that idea, just noticing it for now.

Going back to v.24, Jesus is stating that those who believe that He is sent by the Father have eternal life, while in v.25, He is saying the same thing a different way: "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God," as in, those who hear just a man will remain in their sins, but those who hear the Son of God (IOW, they believe that He is sent from God) will live.

I welcome your thoughts and other references. :)
Click to expand...
yes 24-26 all refer to spiritual rebirth through believing on Jesus, they are raised from the dead spiritually, they live and reign with Christ (rev 20.4-5),

vv28-29 refers to the physical resurrection. ALL will be judged by their works which are the fruit of their rebirth,
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#7
Jun 30, 2015
24,680
13,366
113
#7
Thanks for the responses! :)

DP said:
John 5:25 is about the time immediately after Christ's resurrection. See 1 Peter 3 about Jesus preaching to the "spirits in prison", which was a prophecy from Isaiah 42:6-7.
Click to expand...
It doesn't seem consistent Jesus that would say, "and now is" in v.25 if what He was speaking of would not happen until after His resurrection. Also, I don't see a clear connection with either passage you cite, though I think both fit with v.28-9.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.