Another "caught up" scripture...

[A-Omega]

Excellent analogy my friend, I love this one as well. Because all wrath was pouring out on Egypt with Israel in the middle of it (so to speak) and Yah kept them safe and it didn't touch them. It's so funny how hard people want to hang on to the pre-trib rapture lie, because they just can't bare the thought of having to be here in the tribulation. Shalom

Don't you see how the line of thinking you are employing here is contradictory?? If believers are NOT GOING TO SUFFER then why would anyone, pre-trib or otherwise, be scared of the Great Trib?? The Israelites not being harmed supports the point I am making about believers being taken before God's wrath.

Not every type and shadow in the Bible is verbatim. The passover lamb never came back to life, yet it is still a clear foreshadow of Jesus. Similarly, The Lord's people being "hid" during a time of God's wrath is a picture of the rapture. The Israelites were told to stay behind their doors and not come out during the first passover.
This is just a prophetic type of believers being in the "chamber" being protected until God's judgment has passed over the unbelieving world. In other words, they are never harmed. They are "kept." This is precisely why the rapture happens just before the start of the Day of The Lord.

19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The post-trib model tries to have it both ways. You cannot say believers are protected and yet are killed by the Antichrist. It doesn't make any sense.

I also think it is pointless to say those who believe the "pre-trib lie" are somehow scared. Do we really need to go there? C'mon man.

 

[Avinu]

Don't you see how the line of thinking you are employing here is contradictory?? If believers are NOT GOING TO SUFFER then why would anyone, pre-trib or otherwise, be scared of the Great Trib?? The Israelites not being harmed supports the point I am making about believers being taken before God's wrath. Actually the Israelites did suffer through the first two plagues.

Not every type and shadow in the Bible is verbatim. The passover lamb never came back to life, yet it is still a clear foreshadow of Jesus. Similarly, The Lord's people being "hid" during a time of God's wrath is a picture of the rapture. The Israelites were told to stay behind their doors and not come out during the first passover. Would you care to elaborate on what I have highlighted in blue?
This is just a prophetic type of believers being in the "chamber" being protected until God's judgment has passed over the unbelieving world. In other words, they are never harmed. They are "kept." This is precisely why the rapture happens just before the start of the Day of The Lord. Omega these OT verses you keep trying to use to prove pre-trib is rediculous. Do you even know and understand all the situation of the twelve tribes of Israel?

Also the Day of the Lord doesn't happen until the end of the tribulation, read Zech. 14:1-4.

 

[A-Omega]

Don't you see how the line of thinking you are employing here is contradictory?? If believers are NOT GOING TO SUFFER then why would anyone, pre-trib or otherwise, be scared of the Great Trib?? The Israelites not being harmed supports the point I am making about believers being taken before God's wrath. Actually the Israelites did suffer through the first two plagues.

Not every type and shadow in the Bible is verbatim. The passover lamb never came back to life, yet it is still a clear foreshadow of Jesus. Similarly, The Lord's people being "hid" during a time of God's wrath is a picture of the rapture. The Israelites were told to stay behind their doors and not come out during the first passover. Would you care to elaborate on what I have highlighted in blue?

The Passover lamb was killed and that was it. It never came back to life. Jesus died but did come back to life. Yet the Passover Lamb is still a foreshadow of Jesus. See what I mean? A foreshadow in the Bible does not have to be a verbatim exact match.

This is just a prophetic type of believers being in the "chamber" being protected until God's judgment has passed over the unbelieving world. In other words, they are never harmed. They are "kept." This is precisely why the rapture happens just before the start of the Day of The Lord. Omega these OT verses you keep trying to use to prove pre-trib is rediculous. Do you even know and understand all the situation of the twelve tribes of Israel?

What is your interpretation of the passage from Isaiah I quoted?

 

[Avinu]

What is your interpretation of the passage from Isaiah I quoted?

1) Do you know what the passover lamb was for?

2) Isaiah, what ch. and verse/s?

Did you read Zech. 14:1-4? What do you say to that?

 

[A-Omega]

1

2) Isaiah, what ch. and verse/s?
?

Isaiah 26:19-21

 

[Avinu]

Isaiah 26:19-21

This is about Yah bringing salvation and judgement. The whole chapter talks about it.

Why do you keep avoiding Zech. 14:1-4?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is about Yah bringing salvation and judgement. The whole chapter talks about it.

Why do you keep avoiding Zech. 14:1-4?

This speaks about the end of the tribulation and Christ's return and the final battle before he sets up his kingdom.

However, this can not be the same day of the lord spoken of by Paul, because if it was, everyone would know the day and hour it would happen.

7 years after the covenant
3 1/2 years after the abomination.

also many signs would be given to preclude this day. so that everyone would know it was coming.Yet paul says this day will come as a thief. Meaning there are no signs of when this will occur

 

[Avinu]

This speaks about the end of the tribulation and Christ's return and the final battle before he sets up his kingdom.

However, this can not be the same day of the lord spoken of by Paul, because if it was, everyone would know the day and hour it would happen.

7 years after the covenant
3 1/2 years after the abomination.

also many signs would be given to preclude this day. so that everyone would know it was coming.Yet paul says this day will come as a thief. Meaning there are no signs of when this will occur

Please explain to me how it is that we would know the day or hour if Paul is talking about the same day? There is only one day of the Lord. Yeshua also says it will come as a thief in Rev. 16:15. Yeshua also said there will be signs and that we can know of the time and season. But none of this would give us the ability to figure out the day and hour. Shalom

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please explain to me how it is that we would know the day or hour if Paul is talking about the same day? There is only one day of the Lord. Yeshua also says it will come as a thief in Rev. 16:15. Yeshua also said there will be signs and that we can know of the time and season. But none of this would give us the ability to figure out the day and hour. Shalom

If the last 7 years of daniel are the final seven years before isreal are restored. we can know a few things.

The day will come 7 years after the covenant is signed.
the day wiill come 3 1/2 years after the abomination

the day will come following all the signs which point to that day (the judgments spoken of in revelation)

as for one day of the lord.

the OT speaks of a day of the lord when the lord returns and restor's isreal and rules with her.

Yet peter talks of a day of the lord when this world and the heaven are completely destroyed. thus there must be more than one.

And how about Malachi, the prophesy of john the baptist who turns the heart of the people to God before that great day, when Christ died and put to shame the principalities and powers of the universe?

 

[peterT]

The post-trib model tries to have it both ways. You cannot say believers are protected and yet are killed by the Antichrist. It doesn't make any sense.

.

I like what Daniel said

17 If it be [so], our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver [us] out of thine hand, O king.
18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
No that’s not sound doctrine A-Omega, it’s not a complete contradiction.

The two end time witnesses are supernaturally protected during the Great Tribulation, then at the end of their witness they die as martyrs.

Also the people of God who had the seal of God in their foreheads are supernaturally protected from the locusts and yet many die as witnesses during the Great Tribulation

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Also the in Rv12 the woman fled into the wilderness were supernaturally God supplies all her food for 3 ½ years.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

Now let’s go back in time.

Paul got bit by a snake and God supernaturally protected him and yet he died as a martyr.

And peter supernaturally protected by God was let out of jail and yet died as a martyr.

God is in the business of supernaturally protection and yet you can still die as a witness.

 

[djness]

Why is God so angry?
It's a hard thing to think God loves when He has so much wrath He needs to work out on mankind.

What is the point of destroying everything in phases? Why not just hit the buzzer and get it all over with? Why the long drawn out destruction?

 

[peterT]

Your missing my point. The statement by Jesus about Lot makes it clear that believers at the time of the rapture, will not suffer anything. This is abundantly obvious by just reading the Genesis account. Lot was removed from the city of Sodom, with no harm done to him, just before the wrath of God was poured out. In fact the angels knew specifically that Lot had to be personally removed before it began.

So clearly the example you provide above is NOT what Jesus is referencing. Those Christians who will suffer God's wrath and die during the Great Trib are those who either converted during the Great Trib.


28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. (Luke 17)

Believers get out. And then the judgments of God starts. Your rapture model has to be able to reconcile this verse and it appears that it does not, IMO. God bless.

That was on one city, not the whole world.
The stories are different.
Most of the people of God back in lots day were not affected by the story of Lot and the city of Sodom and the wrath that came.
“Lot makes it clear that believers at the time of the rapture, will not suffer anything.”
You are stretching it a bit there.
You can’t use the story of Lot to show its going to be a Pre-trib coming.
What about the rest of the Bible? And the people that suffered for their faith, it far out ways the storey of Lot.