Can you be wrong about everything except Jesus is Lord and be saved?

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pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#41
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#41
VW said:
Sorry, I was trying to agree without disagreeing. I know so many who believe in Him, but have no inkling of the fellowship with Jesus that is possible. This is what saddens me most of all about normal church teachings, because emphasis is most often placed on rules, how one is to act in all respects, and little or no teaching is given about walking in the Spirit, about walking in Jesus Christ.

I apologize for my error in reading your post.
In His love,
Vic
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No worries, I was more worried you thought I disagreed. This may drive you buggy, but I agree with both points. One simply has to stop thinking in the worldl, and believe to see.
We cannot make anyone know Jesus, we can only introduce.
Remember, it is His Holy Spirit, not anything we do, that brings understanding.
I know Im just beginning to see, and Jesus has been working on me all my life.:)
Keep up the good fight, keep the faith.
in Jesus, God bless. pickles
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#42
#42
to love God with our all,and love our neighbour as ourselves

by their fruit they will be known:)
 
VW

VW

Banned
#43
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#43
pickles said:
No worries, I was more worried you thought I disagreed. This may drive you buggy, but I agree with both points. One simply has to stop thinking in the worldl, and believe to see.
We cannot make anyone know Jesus, we can only introduce.
Remember, it is His Holy Spirit, not anything we do, that brings understanding.
I know Im just beginning to see, and Jesus has been working on me all my life.:)
Keep up the good fight, keep the faith.
in Jesus, God bless. pickles
Click to expand...
Thanks sister, I will keep up the good fight, and the faith. It seems that He has left me nothing else in which to place my trust.

In His wonderful peace,
vic
 
T

thefightinglamb

Guest
#44
#44
I was NOT insisting on the LAW or what I said as law whatsoever.

By the first list of what you must understand in order to truly believe Jesus is Lord, I was just stating facts that must be known in order for the confession of Jesus is Lord to actually have the SUBSTANCE that it needs to have meaning.

The second list, I was not insisting that you believe this in order to follow Christ, to be holy, et cetera. But, instead merely stating truths that a Christian MUST believe in. If someone proposing to be Christian for example and yet believes their life-style of being an alcoholic is acceptable, I quickly assume that 1-they do not understand the statement 'Jesus is Lord' and 2-that they cannot possibly be Christian. It is likewise true for all of the second list.

I made an acception and said possibly you can think you believe in some of the second list, yet disaffirm it by the way you live and still be saved. To go back to my example, possibly you could believe that alcoholics can be saved as long as you are not an alcoholic. This seems like a wrong belief but since it truly is not believed because their life contradicts it--then possibly they are REALLY saved.

But this also brings up an interesting point--the verse that Jesus said about it being better to be tied to a mill stone and be thrown into the sea than to cause one of the least of these to sin. Are not are beliefs the VERY things that either cause people to sin or seek righteousness? If you are young and I tell you "it does not matter if you become an alcoholic, God will save you and you may continue to drink"--have I not caused you to either sin now or in the future by telling you that you can be saved anyway?

I think so. So, I would think that some one who truly knows Christ knows most/all of these essentials of the faith.

I want other people to come up with things that tell you perhaps someone is not a Christian though they claim to be. I am reminded of the thread on false gospels--anyone who brings to you a false gospel is condemned. SO what does it mean to bring a false gospel?

And also--I thought of the two creeds too when I was posting this thread. But, it seems to me that though someone say or testify to everything the creed says, does this mean they actually believe it? My question wants to go deeper and ask "how do you know that someone really believes what something like that creed says?" What does that "belief" look like?

These are my thoughts.
God bless
tony
 
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S

SantoSubito

Guest
#45
#45
charisenexcelcis said:
I disagree with many of your beliefs. I believe in salvation by faith. I believe that at the time of salvation, one might know very little about God. I beleive that one can go through the rite of baptism without coming into the faith and that one can be in the faith without being baptized in water. I believe that there is a time of innocence during which any person is covered by God's grace. I belief that when that state of innocence ceases varies from person to person. I believe that our faith is a relational faith. I believe that a healthy believer will grow in his knowledge of the Lord. I believe that the traditions of the church are helpful when scripture is not clear, but that where scripture is clear, there is no need for revision based upon the traditions of the church. Thank you for sharing your point of view.
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Thank you for your courtesy in asking the questions. I will also have to disagree with many of your beliefs, and we'll probably still be arguing in Heaven.:D
 
VW

VW

Banned
#46
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#46
thefightinglamb said:
I was NOT insisting on the LAW or what I said as law whatsoever.

By the first list of what you must understand in order to truly believe Jesus is Lord, I was just stating facts that must be known in order for the confession of Jesus is Lord to actually have the SUBSTANCE that it needs to have meaning.

The second list, I was not insisting that you believe this in order to follow Christ, to be holy, et cetera. But, instead merely stating truths that a Christian MUST believe in. If someone proposing to be Christian for example and yet believes their life-style of being an alcoholic is acceptable, I quickly assume that 1-they do not understand the statement 'Jesus is Lord' and 2-that they cannot possibly be Christian. It is likewise true for all of the second list.

I made an acception and said possibly you can think you believe in some of the second list, yet disaffirm it by the way you live and still be saved. To go back to my example, possibly you could believe that alcoholics can be saved as long as you are not an alcoholic. This seems like a wrong belief but since it truly is not believed because their life contradicts it--then possibly they are REALLY saved.

But this also brings up an interesting point--the verse that Jesus said about it being better to be tied to a mill stone and be thrown into the sea than to cause one of the least of these to sin. Are not are beliefs the VERY things that either cause people to sin or seek righteousness? If you are young and I tell you "it does not matter if you become an alcoholic, God will save you and you may continue to drink"--have I not caused you to either sin now or in the future by telling you that you can be saved anyway?

I think so. So, I would think that some one who truly knows Christ knows most/all of these essentials of the faith.

I want other people to come up with things that tell you perhaps someone is not a Christian though they claim to be. I am reminded of the thread on false gospels--anyone who brings to you a false gospel is condemned. SO what does it mean to bring a false gospel?

And also--I thought of the two creeds too when I was posting this thread. But, it seems to me that though someone say or testify to everything the creed says, does this mean they actually believe it? My question wants to go deeper and ask "how do you know that someone really believes what something like that creed says?" What does that "belief" look like?

These are my thoughts.
God bless
tony
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You make complicated what should be simple. I believe in Jesus, He is my Lord, because He revealed Himself to me, by His Spirit. And then, just so I would know that I am a child of God, He gave me His Spirit to be a witness of who I am now, and to teach me, not rules, but love.

If all one has is a bunch of beliefs, but they do not have a relationship with Jesus, just what do they have? And if one is in a relationship with Jesus, do you imagine that they would not know when He was disappointed in what they were doing or saying or even thinking or feeling? And do you not imagine that He is able to make whatever change in that one's life that is needed, when that one decides to be what is pleasing to Him?

Really simple, He does it all.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#47
#47
SantoSubito said:
Thank you for your courtesy in asking the questions. I will also have to disagree with many of your beliefs, and we'll probably still be arguing in Heaven.:D
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I doubt it as I will be clinging to the feet of Jesus. Besides, we will know then. You will be saved by faith or I will be saved by my unconscious intent or some combination thereof...
 
T

thefightinglamb

Guest
#48
#48
Sometimes I feel like I am fighting a recording when I post anything...

So VW you claim to be a Christian. I am a Christian. But how are you to really understand that not YOU but I am a Christian?

As I said some people think if a person confesses simply Jesus is Lord then they are saved and a Christian. Some people believe that if they confess that Jesus is Lord and have a story or testimony about "some time in their life" where they confessed Jesus is Lord than they are saved despite if everything else they believe is malarky.

So, I personally have come to the conclusion that the things I wrote about are necessary for me to either believe you are a Christian or that we might have fellowship and understanding on any level...These are MINE and though I believe them to be universally true, I was asking what other beliefs must someone affirm for you or anyone to believe that they have true saving faith and an understanding of what "Jesus is Lord" actually means.

Its just what I feel must be understood. For example, if someone claims that Jesus is Lord and then goes on to tell me that buddhism is also a way to God--I quickly believe that whatever they meant by Jesus is Lord is NOT what I understand by that statement and thus we are not worshipping the same God.

God bless
tony
 
G

Gabriel777

Guest
#49
#49
If we were all persecuted and imprisoned for following Christ, many of these silly doctrines will sift out. All that would matter is trusting in Him and sharing our hope. The thief on the cross is a great example.
 
WomanLovesTX

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
#50
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#50
Is there any particular you are concerned is not right thinking? Does it come from another source than the OT and NT?

You know that you know that you know. There is no room for doubt when you have the blessed assurance. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Doubts are not from God. It is a strong hold to get you side stepped. It has to be one of Satan's favorites. James 2:26 "Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works."


Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
Acts 17:11
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

Works alone does not save. Jesus Christ alone saves. Jesus is Lord when we desire to be like Him.

 
VW

VW

Banned
#51
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#51
thefightinglamb said:
Sometimes I feel like I am fighting a recording when I post anything...

So VW you claim to be a Christian. I am a Christian. But how are you to really understand that not YOU but I am a Christian?

As I said some people think if a person confesses simply Jesus is Lord then they are saved and a Christian. Some people believe that if they confess that Jesus is Lord and have a story or testimony about "some time in their life" where they confessed Jesus is Lord than they are saved despite if everything else they believe is malarky.

So, I personally have come to the conclusion that the things I wrote about are necessary for me to either believe you are a Christian or that we might have fellowship and understanding on any level...These are MINE and though I believe them to be universally true, I was asking what other beliefs must someone affirm for you or anyone to believe that they have true saving faith and an understanding of what "Jesus is Lord" actually means.

Its just what I feel must be understood. For example, if someone claims that Jesus is Lord and then goes on to tell me that buddhism is also a way to God--I quickly believe that whatever they meant by Jesus is Lord is NOT what I understand by that statement and thus we are not worshipping the same God.

God bless
tony
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Hi Tony,

I hoped that you would understand what I was trying to say to you. I must have said it wrong. I apologize. It has been a weird day or two. What I was trying to say is that if we have a relationship with Jesus, one which is open with two way communication, then we truly don't need rules. We will know when we are walking in the flesh, or when we are not walking in faith, because we will hear in our hearts that He is not pleased with us. How can we know that we are always doing those things which are pleasing in His sight, if we cannot hear Him? I don't believe that we can know this unless we are in Him. The reason that I say this is because one can look just like they are saved, do all the right things and say all the right things, and have no relationship with Jesus, and not be saved. Jesus never knew them. It scares me very bad that this can happen, and this is why I tend to not focus on rules about how we should look and act to focus on being in a relationship with Jesus.

Sorry again,
vic
 
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