Catholic church heresies part 2

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R

roaringkitten

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#1
Continued from part 1: http://christianchat.com/showthread.php?p=131434#post131434


5)MARY
"Mary was involved in the Mysteries of Christ. As the most holy Mother of God she was, after her son, exalted...above all angels and human beings. Hence, the Church appropriately honors her with a special cult or devotion. The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is an intrinsic element of Christian worship." (from The Dictionary of the Liturgy, p. 390-391). "Thus, at every liturgical celebration, Mary the Mother of God is with us -- as our Model, our Intercessor," ...."Each Marian celebration is also intended to give us a better understanding of Mother Mary and her part in our salvation." (p. 393). "In all perils and needs, the faithful have fled prayerfully to her protection." (p. 391).

a) Mary was not immaculately conceived, she needed a Savior like everyone else(she even says so):
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23

"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Luke 1:46-47

Yes, Luke 1:46-47 shows Mary the mother of Jesus speaking("And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke 1:43)

Now that we've established Mary as a sinner, she could not even be eligible for saving man(or partly saving man), because she had sin. Just one sin was enough to make her guilty of the whole law("For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10). Christ was without sin which allowed Him to save sinners like us:

"For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;" Hebrews 7:26

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" 1 Peter 1:18-19

The Old Testament showed that a sacrifice of an animal must be without blemish(ie: Leviticus 1:3) to be acceptable to God. Christ is the only person without sin, which makes him the ONLY means of salvation for us(John 14:6). Mary the mother of Jesus was a sinner just like us. The Catholic church lies to say she was immaculately conceived and that she has a "part in our salvation".

Mary is not our mediator, as plainly taught in the Word of God:

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5


"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:26-27

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25




6)CATHOLIC CHURCH AND STATUES
The catechism states:
"Sacred images in our churches and homes are intended to awaken and nourish our faith in the mystery of Christ. Through the icon of Christ and his works of salvation, it is he whom we adore. Through sacred salvation, it is he whom we adore. Through sacred images of the holy Mother of God, of the angels and of the saints, we venerate the persons represented." Pg. 307, #1192

The Catholic church commands their followers to make statues. In an attempt to cover up the church's defiance of Scripture, they change the ten commandments by leaving out "graven images" to perpetuate their traditions:

1. I am Yahweh your God. You shall have no gods except me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honor Your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor."
-The Dictionary of the Liturgy: "Q. 537. (pgs. 121-122)


"And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Exodus 20:1-5

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8

"Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female," Deuteronomy 4:15-16

"Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth." Deuteronomy 16:22


Making "sacred images of the saints", etc...commanded by the catechism clearly violates Deuteronomy 4:15-16(...the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female) and a host of other Scripture.

7)INTERPRETING THE WORD OF GOD
from the catechism:
"The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him." Pg. 30, #100

When the Bereans heard the word(Acts 17:10), they searched the Scriptures for themselves. The Word commands us to search the Scriptures. It is a lie that interpreting the Word of God is solely for the pope and bishops.

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11


"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. " 2 Peter 1:20

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15


"Search the scriptures;..." John 5:39

The Holy Ghost does the interpreting, not the pope or other religious leader:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:..." John 16:13

"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." 1 Corinthians 2:13

"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." Psalm 119:11

If only the pope and bishops can understand the correct interpretation of the Word, then why does God command us to memorize Scripture and study it? It is those leaders who want to bind you to their religion. They have seduced you into lies from demons. Consider this warning, which can describe such leaders as those in the Catholic church:

"These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." 1 John 2:26-27
 
L

leendert

Guest
#3
blah blah blah !!??? lol It would have been better to keep quiet and wish that it all would just go away.The fact is that the rcc is deciveing millions of poeple that want to honestly serve God.The problem with deception is that you dont realise it until you are undecieved.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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blah blah blah !!??? lol It would have been better to keep quiet and wish that it all would just go away.The fact is that the rcc is deciveing millions of poeple that want to honestly serve God.The problem with deception is that you dont realise it until you are undecieved.
Just curious as to what Church Catholics should go to, to be un-deceived and re-educated? There's 50,000 protestant flavors to choose from. Which one is accurate, if any, and or the best? And please give me a denomination and not some obtuse statement like, "anyone that teaches the bible", because all 50,000 say that they do.

And if there are thousands of denominations that exist because they can't agree to be one, doesn't that indicate that the denomination believes it believes more rightly than the other denomination? In other words, if those Baptists had it right, all the Methodists would become Baptists. If those Methodists had it right, all those Seventh Day Adventists would become Methodist.

If you're going to tell Catholics to come out of something you should at least sell them on where they should go into.

What denomination and or kind of Church do you go to and why are you so confident that this place is not deceiving you? It would surely stink if the billions of Catholics were being deceived and suddenly became Seventh Day Adventists or Baptist (they both can't be right) or any of the 47,000 different denominations and growing each week, only to realize that they have been, yet again, deceived.

Doh!

So help those poor misguided Catholics out and let them know which denomination and or non-denominational flavor is best? Or are all of them good just so long as they aren't Catholic?
 
Jul 6, 2009
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#5
The Protestant viewpoint is generally thus:

-The Roman Catholic Church teaches salvation by Grace + Works.
-Salvation is by Grace through Faith. And not only must you believe in Christ, but you must believe that works have nothing to do with Salvation. If you think for one minute that works have something to do with it, you've committed a horrible sin.
-Because of this, the Roman Catholic Church is deceiving people and keeping them out of heaven.
-Nearly all Protestant denominations teach that Salvation is completely by Grace through Faith. No matter what other doctrines they hold to, true or otherwise, they're infinitely superior to the Catholic Church becasue they share Martin Luther's understanding of what "Saved By Grace" means.

Of course it has been pointed out that by this teaching, it becomes not our Faith in Christ but faith in faith, or rather faith in a particular doctrine, that is necessary for salvation, and thus arguably just as deceptive as the RCC.
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#6
Jesus said "they that worship God worship him in spirit and it truth" There is not place for any of us to go to get set free. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after rigtheousness for they shall be filled. The apostle Paul was knocked off his horse and humbled to get the revelation of Jesus Christ. I think that I have mentioned this so many times and nobody gets it because I don't think it can be revealed to a person unless they truly want it. The chruch is relational and not instutional. Going to another denomination is no different that the great harlot because ever single denomination has doctrines that they adopted from the great whore. I can say at least maybe that they are getting out of the frying pan and into the fire instead of it being the other way around. All a person has to do is be sincere with God and he does know our hearts more than we know our hearts ourselves. All denominations are cults. God just has his children spead out throughout the whole system and some are very quiet and candid with their God given knowledge of what it is all about. There are others who speak up but get kicked out. There are others that choose to leave. It depends where God wants you to do and where you are to be, as long as you follow Jesus and not man.
 
M

motojojo

Guest
#7
Jezreel that was a great truth that you said, but they that are not called will never see. I forgive kitty for all his judgment he means well, thank you for trying to save all those poor lost Catholics.
I know so many Christians that walk down an aisle say a few prayers and they got it eternal salvation that they can never loose because they believe what they have been told. They put there Jesus in their pocket and away they go. They don't have to clean up their life because that would be works you just have to believe in the Jesus they have told you about. Martin Luther was a priest that should not have been one, he could not clean up his life so he looked for an easy way out and that my friends is were you got your doctrine. I hope you are right if not millions are believing a lie and they don't even know Christ. Your church is at best 400 yrs old and the Catholic Church is at lest 2,000yrs old, I don't have to respond to your judgments you have your rights as do I. The Catholic and Protestant have disagreed for years I have been were you are at and I know how you feel about all this, but now I see things from a different view.The body of Christ is scattered and torn in pieces because of the ego's of men are to stubborn and stiff necked to love one another.
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#8
I understand what you mean that many are so deceived that if they say the "sinners prayer" and repeat a prayer after somebody, they think that they have gotten saved. Multitudes do not know that there is no such thing as a sinners prayer. We have the Lords prayer which is an outline for us.
If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation, old things are passed away and all things become new. Hundreds of years ago, the majority of people did not have access to the truth like we do today so we will be held very accountable. The truth was hidden and the clergy used latin to keep a hierarchy and keep the people down through oppression and threats. Still though, there were ones that were sincere that God revealed the truth to who were killed and martyred for their relationship with Jesus and they did not deny his name and were faithful unto the end. We have absolutely no excuse today to remain in the dark.
 
L

leendert

Guest
#9
Just curious as to what Church Catholics should go to, to be un-deceived and re-educated? There's 50,000 protestant flavors to choose from. Which one is accurate, if any, and or the best? And please give me a denomination and not some obtuse statement like, "anyone that teaches the bible", because all 50,000 say that they do.

And if there are thousands of denominations that exist because they can't agree to be one, doesn't that indicate that the denomination believes it believes more rightly than the other denomination? In other words, if those Baptists had it right, all the Methodists would become Baptists. If those Methodists had it right, all those Seventh Day Adventists would become Methodist.

If you're going to tell Catholics to come out of something you should at least sell them on where they should go into.

What denomination and or kind of Church do you go to and why are you so confident that this place is not deceiving you? It would surely stink if the billions of Catholics were being deceived and suddenly became Seventh Day Adventists or Baptist (they both can't be right) or any of the 47,000 different denominations and growing each week, only to realize that they have been, yet again, deceived.

Doh!

So help those poor misguided Catholics out and let them know which denomination and or non-denominational flavor is best? Or are all of them good just so long as they aren't Catholic?
I must admit i see your point.Of course we are all bias.Whats the point of going to one church or the other if you dont believe your paticular church is the right one.This explosion in denominations cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit unless there are 47000 versions of the truth,i think not. I do believe that all churches does have some truth.We must however serve God in the whole truth.I believe that truth is to be found in the Seventh day adventist church.Of course being a member ,wont be a one way ticket at the end it boils down to your relationship with God.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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#10
I must admit i see your point.Of course we are all bias.Whats the point of going to one church or the other if you dont believe your paticular church is the right one.This explosion in denominations cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit unless there are 47000 versions of the truth,i think not. I do believe that all churches does have some truth.We must however serve God in the whole truth.I believe that truth is to be found in the Seventh day adventist church.Of course being a member ,wont be a one way ticket at the end it boils down to your relationship with God.
Ok. Well, you have to convince Catholics that there is continuity with 7th day Adventist teachings and that of the Apostles. That means, if (hypothetically speaking) the Apostles came back and surveyed the Churches, of all the Churches they visited, yours would be the one that they held above all others. You should know too that St. Ignatius worked hard to refute outside schisms/cults that wanted to observe the Sabbath. St. Ignatius was a student and knew personally St. John, the beloved disciple of Jesus. Looking at the history you're basically putting Ellen G. White, William Miller and Joseph Bates against the entire first century Saints that knew personally and were ordained by the Apostles, not to mention of whom most were martyred for their faith. Maybe if Ellen G. White, Joseph Bates and William Miller were martyred then you could use the argument that they gave their life for their beliefs. It also appears that Miller was a very active Free Mason and unfortunately a false prophet. Ellen G. White also has an interesting biography. That she is probably the major influence on why vegetarianism is practiced among the Seventh Day Adventists will be a hard sell for the Catholics and makes your "sola scriptura" argument a compromised one. Joseph Bates was also convinced that Jesus would return on Oct. 22, 1884.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church (commonly abbreviated "Adventist"[3]) is a Christian denomination which is distinguished by its observance of Saturday,[4] the original seventh day of the Judeo-Christian week, as the Sabbath, and by its emphasis on the imminent second coming of Jesus Christ. It is the eighth largest international body of Christians[5]. The denomination grew out of the Millerite movement in the United States during the middle part of the 19th century and was formally established in 1863.[6][7] Among its founders was Ellen G. White, whose extensive writings are still held in high regard by Seventh-day Adventists today.


Much of the theology of the Seventh-day Adventist Church corresponds to evangelical teachings such as the Trinity and the infallibility of Scripture. Distinctive teachings include the unconscious state of the dead and the doctrine of an investigative judgment. The church is also known for its emphasis on diet and health, its holistic understanding of the person, its promotion of religious liberty, and its conservative principles and lifestyle.


History

Main article: History of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
The Seventh-day Adventist Church is the largest of several "Adventist" groups which arose from the Millerite movement of the 1840s. The Millerites (after William Miller) were part of the wave of revivalism in the United States known as the Second Great Awakening. Miller predicted on the basis of Daniel 8:14-16 and the "day-year principle" that Jesus Christ would return to Earth on October 22, 1844. When this did not happen, most of his followers disbanded and returned to their original churches.


A small number of Millerites came to believe that Miller's calculations were correct, but that his interpretation of Daniel 8:14 was flawed. Beginning with a vision reported by Hiram Edson on October 23, these Adventists (as this group of Millerite believers came to be known) arrived at the conviction that Daniel 8:14 foretold Christ's entrance into the "Most Holy Place" of the heavenly sanctuary rather than his second coming. Over the next decade this understanding developed into the doctrine of the investigative judgment: an eschatological process commencing in 1844 in which Christians will be judged to verify their eligibility for salvation and God's justice will be confirmed before the universe. The Adventists continued to believe that Christ's second coming would be imminent, although they refrained from setting further dates for the event.


Adventists often view themselves as heirs of earlier groups such as the Waldenses, Protestant Reformers including the Anabaptists, English and Scottish Puritans, evangelicals of the 18th century including Methodists, Seventh Day Baptists, and others who rejected established church traditions.


Organization and recognition

For about 20 years, the Adventist movement consisted of a loosely knit group of people who came from many churches whose primary means of connection and interaction was through James White's periodical, The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald. These individuals embraced the doctrines of the Sabbath, the "heavenly sanctuary" interpretation of Daniel 8:14, conditional immortality and the expectation of Christ's premillennial return. Among its most prominent figures were Joseph Bates, James White, and Ellen G. White. Ellen White came to occupy a particularly central role; her many visions and spiritual leadership convinced her fellow Adventists that she possessed the gift of prophecy.


The church was formally established in Battle Creek, Michigan, on May 23, 1863, with a membership of 3,500.[6] Through the evangelistic efforts of its ministers and laity, the church quickly grew and established a presence beyond North America during the late 1800s. The denominational headquarters were later moved from Battle Creek to Takoma Park, Maryland, where they remained until 1989. The General Conference headquarters then moved to its current location in Silver Spring, Maryland.


For much of the 1800s, a majority of the Adventist leaders supported the doctrine of Arianism (although Ellen G. White was not one of them).[9] This, along with the movement's other theological views, led most Christian denominations to regard it as a cult. However, the Adventist Church adopted the Trinity early in the 20th century and began to dialogue with other Protestant groups toward the middle of the century, eventually gaining wide recognition as a Christian church.


Health and diet

Since the 1860s when the church began, wholeness and health have been an emphasis of the Adventist church.[16] Adventists are known for presenting a "health message" that recommends vegetarianism and expects adherence to the kosher laws in Leviticus 11. Obedience to these laws means abstinence from pork, shellfish, and other foods proscribed as "unclean". The church discourages its members from the use of alcohol, tobacco or illegal drugs (compare Christianity and alcohol). In addition, some Adventists avoid coffee and other beverages containing caffeine.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church


The Great Disappointment

Main articles: Great Disappointment and Adventist
The sun rose on the morning of October 23 like any other day, and October 22, became the Millerites' Great Disappointment. Hiram Edson recorded that "Our fondest hopes and expectations were blasted, and such a spirit of weeping came over us as I never experienced before... We wept, and wept, till the day dawn."[25] Following the Great Disappointment most Millerites simply gave up their beliefs. Some did not and as viewpoints and explanations proliferated. Miller initially seems to have thought that Christ’s Second Coming was still going to take place—that "the year of expectation was according to prophecy; but...that there might be an error in Bible chronology, which was of human origin, that could throw the date off somewhat and account for the discrepancy."[26] Miller never gave up his belief in the Second Coming of Christ; he died on December 20, 1849, still convinced that the Second Coming was imminent. Miller is buried near his home in Low Hampton, NY and his home is a registered National Historic Landmark and preserved as a museum.


Estimates of Miller's followers—the Millerites vary between 50,000, and 500,000. Miller’s legacy includes the Advent Christian Church with 61,000 members, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church with over 16 million members. Both these denominations have a direct connection with the Millerites and the Great Disappointment of 1844. However many of those who had been influenced by Miller went on to found other movements. Clorinda S. Minor eventually led a group of seven to Palestine to prepare for the second coming at a later date.





Ellen White



William Miller




I don't know Leendert. That's a hard sell. Are you part of a reformed sect within your denomination that can explain why we should ignore the roots of the 7th Day Adventists? Why has God, out of all the churches one can visit, chosen yours to be His? And why did He wait until 1863 to reveal it?

Anyone else have a denomination that can contend with Leenderts or are we all going to become 7th Day Adventists now?

I'm curious to know which denomination Roaring Kitten belongs to. With all the anti-Catholic rhetoric, you'd think more people would be able to point us toward a denomination which, when studied, would clearly have a much better record.










 
Jul 29, 2009
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So what you're saying is, you understand relativism but omit it from your daily life.

You're a Seventh Day Adventist, they're the one way ticked to heaven for you.

On the other hand, a Baptist thinks you're a lunatic and that they have it right.

On the OTHER hand, a Catholic thinks you're both nutjobs.

See the point? Don't rail on the Catholic church unless you've got an intelligent argument to make, citing the Crusades or the Inquisition is not an intelligent argument. That's like someone bringing up the fact that a lot of evangelical beliefs stem from the KKK and other southern white supremacist groups of the time.

PS: Don't deny it. Accept that it is the past, and that you and your Church (hopefully) aren't like that anymore.
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#12
So help those poor misguided Catholics out and let them know which denomination and or non-denominational flavor is best? Or are all of them good just so long as they aren't Catholic?
no Ryan us pentecostals are hell bound too :rolleyes:
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#13
This just reminded me of something my husband told me about his grandfather when he was a child. It was just around the 1900's at near the end of that century when my husbands grandfather was a child. His parents were Jehovahs witnesses. The JW false prophets at that time made a prediction that the Lord was coming on a particular day. His grandfather was dressed up in a suit and so was his parents and they all laid on the floor and waited for the end to come!! Anyhow, his grandfather fell away from the J.W's and had nothing to do with it only until his wife a devout believer in Christ who attended the baptist church, he took up J.W religeon again but only to try to make her life miserable. He was a mean spirited old man! It didn't make her miserable like he thought it would. He died never receiving Christ. Sad. I think his attitude towards dabbling with the J.W's just to try to atagonzie his godly wife only truly displeased the Lord a great deal . I am sure that this dangerous game he did to mock her faith had severe consequences upon his own soul.
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#14
This just reminded me of something my husband told me about his grandfather when he was a child. It was just around the 1900's at near the end of that century when my husbands grandfather was a child. His parents were Jehovahs witnesses. The JW false prophets at that time made a prediction that the Lord was coming on a particular day. His grandfather was dressed up in a suit and so was his parents and they all laid on the floor and waited for the end to come!! Anyhow, his grandfather fell away from the J.W's and had nothing to do with it only until his wife a devout believer in Christ who attended the baptist church, he took up J.W religeon again but only to try to make her life miserable. He was a mean spirited old man! It didn't make her miserable like he thought it would. He died never receiving Christ. Sad. I think his attitude towards dabbling with the J.W's just to try to atagonzie his godly wife only truly displeased the Lord a great deal . I am sure that this dangerous game he did to mock her faith had severe consequences upon his own soul.
I dont mean to sound mean but 'grandad' sure came across as a cold hearted person :(
think he was that bitter about faith in general after this 'prophecy' didnt come to pass??
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#15
I dont mean to sound mean but 'grandad' sure came across as a cold hearted person :(
think he was that bitter about faith in general after this 'prophecy' didnt come to pass??
You are alright and not being mean. He was mean spirited!!
 
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