Christian perspectives

[thefightinglamb]

I have found at least two different perspectives on living the Christian life...I have to paint them in their strictest beliefs first...

One way suggests that Christians should censor all that is not Christian from this world...According to this view, Christians should ONLY go to Christian schools, ONLY listen to Christian music (defined as only music that sings of Jesus Christ as Savior or has other inherently Christian lyrics), only be close to Christian friends (for the counsil of the wicked can lead the righteous astray the Bible says), ONLY read Christian books (or at least books by Christian authors), ONLY watch movies that are Christian---and, in short, should not participate in anything secular...I will call this side anti-secular Christians.

Now a second view says pretty much the opposite...The other sees Christ as not separating himself from the secular but actually participating in secular life in order to try and save some....Paul says he tries to be all things to all people, to the Jew he made himself a Jew, and to the gentile, he made himself a gentile in order, if possible, to bring all people to Christ...These believers, when at its best, do not become vile or wicked, but truly seek Christ in secualar movies, books, and life-in-general...For example, in a sermon today at the church I attended they actually used Batman as an example of how someone is not extraodinary until they are placed in extraodinary circumstances...Now Batman is not Christian, and it seems a little odd to use him in a sermon to elucidate the Bible, but it truly was a good elucidation of what the preacher was trying to say...This side I will call within-secular Christians...

So which way is right? Because my life pulls different beliefs from both of these threads in my heart...

For example, I avoid openly sinful movies, books, and situations that I believe will be detrimental to my spiritual growth...But sometimes, actually quite often, I see a book/movie/situation that is neither Christian nor anti-Christian but just secular...movies like Batman....(actually the new Batman was pretty insane...I do not believe it was rated pg13 I think)...or Superman....or transformers...or Old Disney Cartoons...This is harder for me to show with books because I often do see secualr writers implicitly trying to get you to believe/consent in their worldview...Going to a secular liberal college, I found myself quite often assigned to read stuff that spiritually made me sick...so I did not read most of it...

The second way as I said is the opposite...They believe that you should not separate yourself from anything secular...but should seek Christ in all things...I do not know if I should confess this, but their are times where I do not feel like listening to Christian songs...I do not go to profane music...but there are times where I want to listen to a song that talks about the emotions I am feeling at the time...and sometimes you cannot find a Christian song that does that...for example, everytime I her 'Piano Man' I believe I feel what the writer was feeling when he wrote the song...and there are many other songs that are the same...

I used to read secular books and music, but gave them up when I sought the Lord...a lot of the books and music were either profane or just vanity...so my life seems to support more the first than the second view...but I really am unsure about a lot of stuff...for example, I know the insanity that is public schools, I know how hard it would be for anyone who was a Christian to journey through all of it...but I don't know I don't believe it should necessarily be avoided...I think even as the Bible says that Christians should shine out as bright lights in the midst of this world's darkness...and there is a certain glory brought to Christ to Christians who take this path...

These are my thoughts...advise would be helpful...

God bless
tony

 

[Densetzu]

I think it's impossible and probably unhealthy to be completely separate. We're supposed to show compassion for others, and it's difficult to be a loving Christian if we treat everyone else like the 'enemy' who should be shunned and ignored.

 

[Laiahna]

2 Cor 6:14

 

[DaveScotland]

becoming secular inst the way for Christianity, Jesus actually commands us to be salt and light of the Earth Salt takes what's already there, gives it flavour and makes it more appealing,Light lets people see in the dark, it can show a path when all other are darkened before you, when we are seperated from world how do we learn, how can we see and recognise the problems. how do we get our faith tested, We cant witness we cant lead by example, Jesus lived among the people the least we can do is follow his example.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Dear me, just spent 2 hours reseaching the english translated word "gain" that Paul is said to have used, Paul used the word kerdaino. I have gone through concordances and the best Greek-English lexicons relating to theology and Biblical word analysis, and what I have found is truly alarming, although I feel compelled to do this I find myself struggling often to come to terms with the gravity of my Biblical research, the results I find very alarming and shocking.

Kerdaino - Generally we find this Greek word to mean "gain", generally, but that is, well, I suppose acceptable, but it is the way it is translated, there is something in the translation into english that is amiss, it is not quite right, and again it seems deliberately so. I went through 5 different english translations only to find the same mistake, and I discern there is a mistake here with the translation of this word in particular, and what I find disturbing is that if I wanted to select a word out of Koine Greek that I wanted to slightly miss-use but get away with it so it would for the most part go unnoticed but would change the entire message, If I wanted to change the message of the verse by selecting one word to tamper with I would choose kerdaino.

I must say I only trust the words that the prophets and Apostles wrote, and I can be sure that their words are the words of God, but I don't trust translations, I don't trust any translator, I must know what is the exact word the the inspired pen wrote! And God has preserved that, for example we know that Paul used in this case kerdaino. So what does this word mean and how does it fit in to the message of the verse?. This word does mean gain in a profit sense, as in you have profited yourself, not someone else- it really means making an advantage, it is even used to describe making gain unfairly!

Liddel and Scott give this definition Kerdaino: -to gain, derive profit or advantage - to make unfair gains.

Now there is kerma and kermatistes and it appears to me that this is where the word kerdaino is derived from. Kerma means a clipping of a coin i.e. money. Because money was silver and gold coins - clipplings were taken from coins, becuase it was literally the weight of the silver and gold coin that gave it it's value. Kermatistes means is the name given to the specific job of clipping coins i.e. a money-broker, changer of money.

Well not always seen as an honest profession, and a strange use of word here, so lets analyze the context.

1 Cor. 9:24

"Know ye not that they which run in a race - run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run that ye may obtain."

obtain- katalambano ; to take eagerly, i.e. seize, possess, claim, win, etc. (lit or fig.)- apprehend, attain, come upon, comprehend, find, obtain, percieve, overtake.

Actually we see that in context this word is what Paul is using to describe winning or gaining a prize, and the other point is he says; 'but one receiveth the prize'! this analogy does not make sense to Paul's previous comments if we take kerdaino to mean "gain" as the King Jame's court wants us to believe, but I don't see that that is the right interpretation, because it does not make sense, the original Greek makes sense I understand what Paul is saying in what he wrote in Greek but I cannot understand how it has been translated into English.

1 Cor. 9: 25

"And every man that striveth for the mastery (agonizomai - contending in games) is temperate (means severe training) in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptable crown; but we for an incorruptable crown."

In light of these verses which I understand, but how can they be reconciled with 1 Cor.9:20-23. In one breath Paul is saying, you must run a race as if you want tro win a prize - a crown, and the one you are running with are running a losing race for an 'incorruptable crown', then he says you want to win this race, but then he is saying you want to help other so that they win the race, but then says that everyone is running comparing it to an Olympic Games race and though all are running, 'but one receiveth the prize' only one wins. This cannot make sense unless I read the word kerdaino as 'gain advantage', 'profit over', and that is really the most accurate definition of the word, it is not 'gain' or 'win' because for that Paul uses the word katalambano which makes sense, thats correct translation in this context, so why switch to 'kerdaino' if you mean the same thing? Obviously he means gain advantage over and not win them over, he sees himself running against Judeans still under the law, he sees himself not under the law, so declares he has the advantage.

To me kerdaino means that by experience and training Paul has gained an advantage in the race he is in against Judeans who are weak and feeble, he is talking about sever training, and using the analogy of an Olympics games race!

The present King James translation of these verses seems to me and I am no great lingiust, but I can see that there are serious translation errors here that need to be investigated and I find this time and time again, there are many problems with our english translations, they simply are seem to not corroborate with orginal scripture, this is another example.

 

[SamIam]

I like some secular writers. Yup i really do, but i also like some christian writers as well, so i read both.

 

[carpetmanswife]

I feel there is a fine line drawn here, we are in this world but not of this world. There is no way to avoid all worldy things if we lock ourselves in our rooms we will have worldy thoughts..y? because we are human , still flesh.We cant be witnesses to people of the world if we avoid them, we'd become snobbish, holier than thou ...and who wants such a thing , what kind of a witness is that...BUT if ANYTHING and i mean anything pulls you away from Christ , makes you want to stray from the faith ...anything that becomes more important to you than Him...youd better run from it like you would the plague.
I dont want to gain the whole world and lose my soul .

 

[pickles]

You need all of the above. smiles I live each day, all I am, all I do,I trust to Our Lord Jesus and the help of his Holy Spirit. Sometimes I know through his word, sometimes the voice within, and sometimes he just pushes me either to continue or makes sure I leave all and get far away now. Even though many things may be sinfull. The true sin is within the heart. My heart I have given to Jesus and he takes very good care of it and shows me how to avoid sin within. God bless, pickles

 

[William]

Hello Lamb,

A quesion I might suggest is, " Does this question always have the same answer for everyone"? I'm not sure it does. Some folks are called to different things. In the mean time I would suggest you look up an Essay by T.S. Elliot called "Religion and Literature" which might help you to find some balance in this area of a Christian's response to pop culture. In the same vein, is it possible that there is a "subsitute" for strictly secular entertainment? Its an oft forgotten fact that "pop" culture in the past, granted often in the distant past, was by and large formed and regulated by a Christian Ethic.

William

 

[greatkraw]

We are called to be separate and more importantly only fellowship with those who are separate.

It reminds me of the pastor that moved into a new city. He was looking for another pastor he could fellowship with so they compared each other's policis. They found they were against.....
alcohol, smoking,gambling, tv,movies, cards, short hair on women, womens slacks, mixed bathing (among others)

The new pastor thought great, we can fellowship - "oh 1 more thing, I DO go swimming in private with my wife."

'That constitutes mixed bathing, I can't fellowship with you'