Delivering Demons

[emmajade]

The only thing that is coming to my mind at the moment is Romans 1. In the chapter, it says God gave idolators over to their reprobate minds and sins. I've no clue what that means, but when reading this, the chapter of Romans 1 came to mind. Gee I have to look it up.

Romans 1
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.


That is from NIV within the chapter of Romans 1. I am not sure what that is all about!

God doesn't make people sin, right? So maybe he just releases his hands of protection? Or maybe sin is like cancer and just grows. Maybe someone could explain it.

 

[emmajade]

Then again Jesus cast out demons all over the place. I would think if the main issue is a life of sin, confessing and repenting would be the first step.

I tell you that in the same way there is more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. Luke 15:7


Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord...
Acts 3:19

I certainly have never been to seminary. If I am wrong, forgive me!

 

[loveschild]

Originally Posted by loveschild

Like a sexual sin? I know a lady right now who did a sexual sin. There is a python demon crawling around inside of destroying her inside horrible.

Its not a game.

God bless you!


How do you know that there is a Python Demon inside of her?

Some people have a gift from God to see the demons. Thats why we knew it was there. As we were trying to get the demon to go the Holy spirit told me the demon had legal right to her. So we kept on going to find out how the demon had the rights to her. After more time the Holy Spirit said the sin was a sex sin and showed the man the lady had sex with. While we were trying to help this lady the Holy Spirt warned the devil inside of her was trying to choke her to death.
The devil inside of her was distorting her and crawling. She was throwing up and gagging. This thing did not want to come out.

Most of you don't know what your talking about.

With all love in my heart.

 

[QuestionTime]

Until we are truly Born Again, we are possessed by satan. Justification (sinner's prayer) is not when people are Born Again. I agree. Sanctification (Born Again) is a gift of God given to sincere seekers later in their walks with God. I do not agree. Sanctification is a PROCESS of 'being saved'...a continual state of BEING. And it belongs to every sincere seeker, regardless of the longevity of their walk with God. Justification is Christ's Righteousness Imputed, Sanctification is Christ's Righteousness Imparted. If people still struggle with sin then they do not yet have the Imparted Righteousness of Christ. And WHERE does that come from? Is that supported by Scripture or is it an 'opinion' worked into some doctrine?
Maggie

It's supported in scripture more than you know. I pray that God will open your eyes! Until then however, check out 1 Thess 5:23 and see what Paul is praying for the obedient Thessalonian church.

St. John says that perfect love drives out fear, and that "as Jesus is, so are we in this world." If you still struggle with sin then you are not yet made perfect in love, nor are you like Jesus is. 1 John 3 also says that a believer does not commit sin.

What happens with Entire Sanctification is we are returned to the Adam/Eve state, where we are partakers of the divine nature and we are able to always walk holy, though we still are capable of eating the fruit from the wrong tree (able to sin).

It all comes down to this: "According to your faith be it unto you." If you prefer to believe that you must struggle with sin until you die, then God will allow you to struggle. He never forced anyone to be healed, but those He healed were healed completely, not partially.

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

Scripture speaks of both justification and sanctification as instant things obtained by faith in Christ. Justification - being made right with God. Sanctification - ceremonial purity and being set apart. Refer to the old testament sacrificial system for greater clarity. Christ's blood does both justification and sanctification. There's no such thing as a justified person who is not sanctified and vice versa. If a person is right with God by Christ's blood, they are also sanctified, i.e. ceremonially clean and set apart by Christ's blood as well. Once you are sealed by Christ's blood, justified and sanctified by faith in the Saviour, there is absolutely nothing you can do or experience to become 'more sanctified' than you were when you first believed.

Doesn't the Bible say that God doesn't pour new wine into an old wineskin? God has to give a completely new wineskin for the Holy Spirit to enter. Either we are an evil tree or a good tree. Either we have the good fruits in Gal 5 or we have the bad fruits. There is no such thing as an in-between. Either we are Sanctified Wholly or we are Sanctified Partially. Either we fear death or we do not fear death. Either we have been saved from our sins or our sins still rule over us.

How people can believe that God pours His precious and pure Spirit into an old sinful wineskin, I will never understand.

 

[QuestionTime]

Disagree. People are blinded by satan not in the direct possession and influence of unless they allow him.

Sorry, I should have worded things better. We are not "possessed by satan" but we still possess a bent toward sin in our hearts (Romans 7 experience) which of course is satan's nature inside of us.

Entire Sanctification removes the old sinful nature, then as a good tree we bring forth good fruit.

Quest

 

[QuestionTime]

You might want to clarify this a bit more. Do you think that the impartation of the righteousness of Christ is received upon being born again? As far as I can remember, I don't think there is anywhere in the Bible that talks about us becoming the righteousness of Christ in a period after we get saved. This is a necessary clarification because to many this is saying that you aren't saved if you still sin.

No, Wesley says that we are still saved at that point, but we have to experience Sanctification before we die. But some groups claim that until you are born again you are not saved. The "I'll Be Honest" group in particular believes this. I've heard it come out of Tim Conway's mouth, telling a girl in a video that she isn't saved yet.

They also say that the Sinner's Prayer condemns people to hell. This is partially true because it gives many the false belief that they have received all that God has to offer in this lifetime. That's why the church is so lukewarm right now, because there are so many hypocrites who believe they are born again and heaven bound (I used to be one of them for many years).

In light of this diagnosis there can he only one cure: "the great end of religion is to renew our hearts in the image of God, to repair that total loss of righteousness and true holiness. . ."12 With the Reformers Wesley argued that justification or forgiveness of sins was the ground of the Christian life. (He never surrendered this conviction.) At the same time, Wesley was sure that God could do something for penitent sinners beyond forgiving them. The righteousness which God imputed to them, in virtue of Christ's righteous obedience unto death, God could also impart in virtue of the Spirit's power and penetration. This doctrine of sanctification (or "perfection", a somewhat misleading synonym, as is made plain below), Wesley insisted, "is the grand depositum which God has lodged with the people called Methodists; and for the sake of propagating this chiefly God appeared to have raised us up."13 His conviction here he amplified elsewhere:

By Methodists, I mean a people who profess to pursue (in whatsoever measure they have attained) holiness of heart and life; inward and outward conformity in all things to the revealed willof God; who place religion in a uniform resemblance to the great object of it; in a steady imitation of him they worship, in allhis inimitable perfections; more particularly in justice, mercy and truth, or universal love filling the heart and governing the life. 14
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[MahogonySnail]

Doesn't the Bible say that God doesn't pour new wine into an old wineskin? God has to give a completely new wineskin for the Holy Spirit to enter. Either we are an evil tree or a good tree. Either we have the good fruits in Gal 5 or we have the bad fruits. There is no such thing as an in-between. Either we are Sanctified Wholly or we are Sanctified Partially. Either we fear death or we do not fear death. Either we have been saved from our sins or our sins still rule over us.

How people can believe that God pours His precious and pure Spirit into an old sinful wineskin, I will never understand.

Well, that's exactly my point. God does not sanctify (i.e. gradually improve) the old nature over time. He kills the old nature. All believers are sanctified wholly. But not all believers experience whole sanctification.

I believe sanctification is instantaneous. That is the spiritual reality. We can't believe in full and instant justification without believing in full and instant sanctification as well. There's no such thing as being justified with God, and not also sanctified. To be sanctified is to be set apart from the world and consecrated to God. That is the main new testament meaning of the word. Realising that the word "sanctification" can have different meanings, and that depends on what bible version you use (KJV uses 'sanctification', but others may use 'set apart'). But the point is that Paul often uses present or past tense to refer to their sanctification, not future, such as this verse:


1Co 1:2 to the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called out with all those in every place who call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.

Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called.


In fact you'd find it difficult to find any verse that refers to sanctification as a process of future attainment leading to perfection. You'd also find it difficult to find a verse where Paul refers to christians as being 'yet to be fully sanctified in the future'. He knew full well, even these wayward Corinthians (in 1 Cor 1:2), that despite how things looked on the outside and all their imperfections and flaws, they were still very much "sanctified in Christ Jesus".


Actually I think the future sanctification as a process belief comes from Calvinism, above all places.


I believe what is a process over time is not our sanctification, but the spiritual realilty inside us manifesting into our daily lives as we grow into Christ. Sanctification, being set apart for God, is something God already has done when we are no longer of this world through faith in Christ and receipt of His Spirit.

 

[MaggieMye]

Maggie: Until we are truly Born Again, we are possessed by satan. Justification (sinner's prayer) is not when people are Born Again. I agree. Sanctification (Born Again) is a gift of God given to sincere seekers later in their walks with God. I do not agree. Sanctification is a PROCESS of 'being saved'...a continual state of BEING. And it belongs to every sincere seeker, regardless of the longevity of their walk with God. Justification is Christ's Righteousness Imputed, Sanctification is Christ's Righteousness Imparted. If people still struggle with sin then they do not yet have the Imparted Righteousness of Christ. And WHERE does that come from? Is that supported by Scripture or is it an 'opinion' worked into some doctrine?
Maggie

It's supported in scripture more than you know. Where? I pray that God will open your eyes! Until then however, check out 1 Thess 5:23 and see what Paul is praying for the obedient Thessalonian church. “Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete,without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” This is a BLESSING spoken forth by Paul. It is a declaration that man cannot separate himself from sin, only God can. The understanding is that IF we remain IN HIM, we CAN be in a state of sinlessness. Scripture does not say that we cannot become sinless once we are born again. It only says that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” Once a person is born again, Christ residing in the person AND THE PERSON RESIDING IN CHRIST (this concept is seldom taught from the pulpit) a person can...yes CAN remain sinless, once they receive Christ. Sin is a choice. 1 John 3:6 “ 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

What happens with Entire Sanctification is we are returned to the Adam/Eve state, where we are partakers of the divine nature and we are able to always walk holy, though we still are capable of eating the fruit from the wrong tree (able to sin).
MahoganySnail: God does not sanctify (i.e. gradually improve) the old nature over time. He kills the old nature. All believers are sanctified wholly. But not all believers experience whole sanctification. Correct: We are sanctifIED

Doesn't the Bible say that God doesn't pour new wine into an old wineskin?This has always referred to 'old thinking' vs. 'new thinking'... 'old understandings' vs. 'new understandings' of what God is doing or has done. God has to give a completely new wineskin for the Holy Spirit to enter.Wrong. Holy Spirit is the one that gives the REVELATION of a new understanding. Then the condition of the wineskin ( old or new) becomes evident and revealed by how the person responds to that understanding. Either we are an evil tree or a good tree. Either we have the good fruits in Gal 5 or we have the bad fruits. There is no such thing as an in-between. And yet you say that sanctification is a 'process'. Either we are Sanctified Wholly or we are Sanctified Partially. Either we fear death or we do not fear death. Either we have been saved from our sins or our sins still rule over us. This is the working out of one's salavation with fear and trembling, of confessing, repenting, breaking off strongholds and bondages and removing ourself (and others) from the regions of captivity. Think: Isa 61

No, Wesley says that we are still saved at that point, but we have to experience Sanctification before we die. I know Wesley is famous, but he is human and can error. Why do you quote man?

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[machew]

Not everyone who is not born again is possessed by satan. YES, they ARE. Only those committed and submitted and Born again are OWNED by the Holy Spirit and Christ Jesus (John 17:9) All others are OWNED by Satan and they will spend eternity in hell Only those who have opened the door to such a thing. Most non-believers are under the influence of satan to some extent, but not possessed.ALL unbelievers are under the ownership of satan. If they were not, they too would be going to heaven in their unsaved state. There are only TWO entities that can OWN a person; Holy Spirit and the devil When someone believes a lie, their agreement with it gives the satan influence over them. But not every lie leads to possession. True, but it CAN lead to OPpression.

I think your definition of possession and mine are different. For me possession means that the devil actually occupies their spirit-man and has complete control over them. I don't see this that often. If you have ever seen the movie the exorcist then you know what I am talking about. But yes I agree that people are oppressed by the devil before they are saved.

 

[MaggieMye]

I think your definition of possession and mine are different.Most assuredly. Did you see the differentiation in the lead post? For me possession means that the devil actually occupies their spirit-man and has complete control over them. OCCUPATION is OPPRESSION, NOT POssession/ownership....POssession is complete control, reliinquished by the perso to the kingdom of darkness. But a demon can occupy a person...in a body part and in their soul without the person being completely controlled by that demon. I don't see this that often.You won't in the US, but Africa, South America, the Outback of Australia....lots of it there. If you have ever seen the movie the exorcist then you know what I am talking about.** But yes I agree that people are oppressed by the devil before they are saved. Don't fool yourself....they are Oppressed even more so AFTER they are saved because satan does NOT want them fulfilling the call of God on their life and he will do whatever he can to thwart them.
** While based on a true story the Exorcist IS an exaggeration for literary licence and 'hollywood'. It really happened to a 8 or 9 year old boy in Brazille, not a 12-year old girl in England. I don't know about all the 'green puke', etc, but I do know that while satan does attack the physical body of a person, he also quite often prefers to keep his possession of a person secret for the purposes of influencing and entrapping others into his snare of insanity.
Maggie