Does water baptism save?
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S
Baptism is not the WHAT of salvation. There is nothing inherent in the water. The proper candidate for baptism is one who believes and has repented of sin.
Jesus was baptized under John the Baptist's ministry which was under the Old Covenant. We are baptized in obedience to the New Covenant gospel. Baptism is a participation in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Rom. 6:3-4).
Baptism is the WHEN and WHERE of salvation. It stands before the forgiveness of sins, being saved, getting into Christ, having our sins washed away, being raised with Christ.
Jesus' work of atonement on the cross is the what of salvation. Only those who are part of the body will be saved.
Jesus was baptized under John the Baptist's ministry which was under the Old Covenant. We are baptized in obedience to the New Covenant gospel. Baptism is a participation in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Rom. 6:3-4).
Baptism is the WHEN and WHERE of salvation. It stands before the forgiveness of sins, being saved, getting into Christ, having our sins washed away, being raised with Christ.
Jesus' work of atonement on the cross is the what of salvation. Only those who are part of the body will be saved.
S
In the book of John Chpt. 3, a Pharisee by the name of Nicodemus of the Jewish council visited Jesus at night. He acknowledges that Jesus is a teacher from God. What Jesus tells the man, has spawned great debate among clergy as well as laypersons.
When a verse of scripture is taken out of context it gains the potential to develop a whole new meaning. In order to uncomplicate scripture, we must first read the chapter in its entirety. There is a complete message and a complete meaning conveyed.
In this chapter, Jesus begins by saying to Nicodemus, “You must be born again”. We notice that He did not refer to an initial birth, but a second birth, ‘born again’ Nicodemus says “How can a man be born when he is old?”, Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born”.
In order to explain the second birth, Jesus simply refers to the birth Nicodemus already knew. The natural birth, to be born from the womb. Jesus continues by saying” I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.”
Born of, (or) from, water, was a reference to child birth (the natural birth) . Born of the Spirit was a reference to salvation, (spiritual birth).
Non-biblical phrases have also been coined in association with child birth, such as a ‘woman’s water breaking’. The baby is completely submerged in the fluid of the womb, inhaling, exhaling, and even being nourished by it and passing it through the body until it emerges. This is flesh giving birth to flesh.
Some have taught, in error, that what Jesus was saying was that we must all be water baptized in order to enter the kingdom of Heaven. This, as some already know, is incorrect theology.
Water baptism indeed symbolizes rebirth and repentance. It signifies a new beginning, a fresh start, a new life in Christ Jesus. It may even symbolize a re-emerging as if one were coming forth from the womb once again. However, it is nonetheless, only a representation of a rebirth, not an additional condition or requirement for salvation, and certainly not a new command implying that without water baptism there is no salvation.
Literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of elderly or ill patients are prayed for everyday in hospitals and special care facilities all over the nation, and many believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, receiving Him as Savior, repenting of sins, believing within their hearts and professing their new found faith with their mouths. Many of these do not undergo any form of baptism whatsoever, and have not been baptized previously.
There is also the very familiar scripture in Luke 23:43, where Jesus tells a man on a cross beside Him, “Today you will be with me in paradise”. Was this man a believer, Yes! Was he going to be with Jesus in His kingdom? Yes! Even though no baptism was conducted or even mentioned, we know that this man was saved and went to heaven.
Remember that Jesus is still explaining the concept of being born again, (saved). He further elucidates, for Nicodemus’ benefit, by saying :
“Flesh gives birth to flesh, ( once again, natural birth), but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (once again, salvation).
Here the Lord is simply repeating the same concept, but in different words. Vs 3 “No one can enter the kingdom unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Jesus is using natural child birth, where flesh gives birth to flesh, in order to explain the concept of re-birth, to Nicodemus.
When these scriptures are understood in their proper context, they are no longer seemingly contradictory to Paul’s scriptures, or others, pertaining to conditions for salvation. Other scriptures, such as Acts 2:38, where the apostle Peter says:
“repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Peter was not setting up a condition for salvation, conflicting with Romans 10:9, where Paul states, “If you confess with your mouth, that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved”.
When a verse of scripture is taken out of context it gains the potential to develop a whole new meaning. In order to uncomplicate scripture, we must first read the chapter in its entirety. There is a complete message and a complete meaning conveyed.
In this chapter, Jesus begins by saying to Nicodemus, “You must be born again”. We notice that He did not refer to an initial birth, but a second birth, ‘born again’ Nicodemus says “How can a man be born when he is old?”, Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born”.
In order to explain the second birth, Jesus simply refers to the birth Nicodemus already knew. The natural birth, to be born from the womb. Jesus continues by saying” I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.”
Born of, (or) from, water, was a reference to child birth (the natural birth) . Born of the Spirit was a reference to salvation, (spiritual birth).
Non-biblical phrases have also been coined in association with child birth, such as a ‘woman’s water breaking’. The baby is completely submerged in the fluid of the womb, inhaling, exhaling, and even being nourished by it and passing it through the body until it emerges. This is flesh giving birth to flesh.
Some have taught, in error, that what Jesus was saying was that we must all be water baptized in order to enter the kingdom of Heaven. This, as some already know, is incorrect theology.
Water baptism indeed symbolizes rebirth and repentance. It signifies a new beginning, a fresh start, a new life in Christ Jesus. It may even symbolize a re-emerging as if one were coming forth from the womb once again. However, it is nonetheless, only a representation of a rebirth, not an additional condition or requirement for salvation, and certainly not a new command implying that without water baptism there is no salvation.
Literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of elderly or ill patients are prayed for everyday in hospitals and special care facilities all over the nation, and many believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, receiving Him as Savior, repenting of sins, believing within their hearts and professing their new found faith with their mouths. Many of these do not undergo any form of baptism whatsoever, and have not been baptized previously.
There is also the very familiar scripture in Luke 23:43, where Jesus tells a man on a cross beside Him, “Today you will be with me in paradise”. Was this man a believer, Yes! Was he going to be with Jesus in His kingdom? Yes! Even though no baptism was conducted or even mentioned, we know that this man was saved and went to heaven.
Remember that Jesus is still explaining the concept of being born again, (saved). He further elucidates, for Nicodemus’ benefit, by saying :
“Flesh gives birth to flesh, ( once again, natural birth), but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (once again, salvation).
Here the Lord is simply repeating the same concept, but in different words. Vs 3 “No one can enter the kingdom unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Jesus is using natural child birth, where flesh gives birth to flesh, in order to explain the concept of re-birth, to Nicodemus.
When these scriptures are understood in their proper context, they are no longer seemingly contradictory to Paul’s scriptures, or others, pertaining to conditions for salvation. Other scriptures, such as Acts 2:38, where the apostle Peter says:
“repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Peter was not setting up a condition for salvation, conflicting with Romans 10:9, where Paul states, “If you confess with your mouth, that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved”.
You are in error Watchmen. Mark 16:16 says He who believes and is baptized will be saved." It says he who is baptized WILL be saved.
Also in Acts chapter 22 when Paul is struck blind on the road to Damascus and he is told to go into the city and he will be told what to do. He is told in Damascus by Ananias in verse16, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."
Most people think that Paul was saved on the way to Damascus. He was not. He wasn't saved until he was baptized for the remission of sins in Damascus.
Also in Acts chapter 22 when Paul is struck blind on the road to Damascus and he is told to go into the city and he will be told what to do. He is told in Damascus by Ananias in verse16, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."
Most people think that Paul was saved on the way to Damascus. He was not. He wasn't saved until he was baptized for the remission of sins in Damascus.
When people say baptism doesn't save they are almost always saying it is the water that doesn't save. Well obviously. But baptism is not about just water, it's about making committments and said prayers and things like that and it is those that save. So in that sense, yes baptism does save. But why use water? The same reason you wouldn't take communion using coca cola - because water is the way it's supposed to be done.
M
I am of the same mind as C H Spurgeon on this subject:
"A man that knows that he is saved by believing in Christ does not, when he is baptised, lift his baptism into a saving ordinance. In fact, he is the very best protester against that mistake, becasue he holds that he has no right to be baptised unitl he is saved".
"A man that knows that he is saved by believing in Christ does not, when he is baptised, lift his baptism into a saving ordinance. In fact, he is the very best protester against that mistake, becasue he holds that he has no right to be baptised unitl he is saved".
M
Not much to add other than to state where I stand. I believe in infant baptism, that it is a sacrament which remits original sin, imparts grace and is the beginning of the Christian life. It is ordinarily necessary for salvation.
Ryan has already articulated much of what I understand and think about baptism.
Ryan has already articulated much of what I understand and think about baptism.
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C
No
Show me where John the Baptist was ever baptized, yet he was saved.
Paul, in 1 Cor. 1:17 said, he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel, so they cannot be one
and the same
The Bible says that baptism is the answer of a good conscience (saved) toward God, have to be
saved to be a candidate for baptism
Infant baptism does nothing, it does not remit sin, only the blood of Christ remits sin,
I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the father but by me-Jesus speaking
Show me where John the Baptist was ever baptized, yet he was saved.
Paul, in 1 Cor. 1:17 said, he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel, so they cannot be one
and the same
The Bible says that baptism is the answer of a good conscience (saved) toward God, have to be
saved to be a candidate for baptism
Infant baptism does nothing, it does not remit sin, only the blood of Christ remits sin,
I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the father but by me-Jesus speaking
John the Baptist was never baptised because he did not need to be. John was a Jew, living under the Old Covenant that God made with the nation of Israel. Israelites living under the Old Covenant were not required to be baptised. John's baptism nor that of the Apostles prior to the crucifixition was Christian baptism. John's baptism bound its subjects to repentence, not to belief in Christ. It was NOT administered in the name of the Trinity, and after Christ's resurrection, all Christians who were baptised by John were rebaptised by Paul (Acts 19:1-7) and received the Holy Spirit. The same is true for the thief on the cross. The new covenant did not begin until Christ's death on the cross, so the thief was not required to be baptised. In Mark 16:16 the author says "He who believes AND is baptised WILL be saved. That pretty much says it all.
S
Does that mean that friends and relatives that believed upon Christ for the forgiveness of their sins on their death bed, without having opportunity or ability to be baptized by submersion, came short of salvation because they could not exercise obedience in water baptism? We are saved by grace through faith in Christ plus nothing. It is a gift of God, not of works, less any man should boast. Water baptism is not a gift of God. Salvation is a gift of grace and water baptism is an act of obedience in the righteousness of God that identifies the believer with Christ and not the world. It reveals to the world and to the demons of the atmosphere that you belong to God as a purchased possession of God's redemption through Christ. Every believer should get baptized as soon as they understand that it is a command to be obeyed and not a requirement for salvation.
Hey Shad, I withdrew that post because I noticed that it seemed a little insensitive to people who had lost loved ones and hoped to see them in heaven. It looks like you caught it before I withdrew it. My apology to anyone who finds it offensive. I did not mean it that way. Let me just say that I agree that there are cases where baptism may not be essential if someone trully believes and doesn't have an opportunity to be baptized. At least I hope that is the case. And you do make a good case that maybe it is not an essential component of salvation. I am still learning and maturing as a Christian as are most people on Christian Chat. Thank you for your insight. But for those who love Jesus, and have the opportunity to be baptized, they should not delay in doing so.
S
If water baptism is necessary for salvation then explain the following passage.
1Cor 1: 17,18 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
If water baptism is necessary for salvation why would God send Paul to only preach the gospel and not to baptize? Paul never taught that water baptism was part of the gospel of salvation. The gospel of salvation is in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. His blood cleanses us from all sin not water baptism. The cross dealt with all our sins and the old sin nature that produced them. The sacrifice of Christ, as our substitute, satisfied the justice of God and not water baptism. The cross is the power of God unto salvation, not water baptism.
What we have going on today are those that make repentance a pre-requisite to believing the gospel for salvation and on the other end there are those that make water baptism a post-requisite for salvation. These are both additions to the gospel and are not included in the cross or the glorious gospel of Christ. The cross is Christ being crucified for us and as us and we believe in His sacrifice by faith. When we believe by faith, we are cleansed by the blood of Christ, God imputes His free gift of righteousness and we are justified by grace and made complete in Christ.
Everything that God did to save us is imputed to us as a gift of grace because of what Christ did on the cross. In the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation / Rom 10:10. That confession is about what Christ did on the cross to make forgiveness and cleansing of all sin available to those who believe. Or, we can say this, Christ became sin for us, who know no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him / 2Cor 5:21.
Acts 16:29-34 The jailer called for lights and ran to the dungeon and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.” 32 And they shared the word of the Lord with him and with all who lived in his household. 33 Even at that hour of the night, the jailer cared for them and washed their wounds. Then he and everyone in his household were immediately baptized. 34 He brought them into his house and set a meal before them, and he and his entire household rejoiced because they all believed in God.
Believing and baptism were two separate and distinct actions. Believing was unto salvation and baptism was for identification with Christ as a new believer. The entire household rejoiced because they believed in God.
1Cor 1: 17,18 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
If water baptism is necessary for salvation why would God send Paul to only preach the gospel and not to baptize? Paul never taught that water baptism was part of the gospel of salvation. The gospel of salvation is in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. His blood cleanses us from all sin not water baptism. The cross dealt with all our sins and the old sin nature that produced them. The sacrifice of Christ, as our substitute, satisfied the justice of God and not water baptism. The cross is the power of God unto salvation, not water baptism.
What we have going on today are those that make repentance a pre-requisite to believing the gospel for salvation and on the other end there are those that make water baptism a post-requisite for salvation. These are both additions to the gospel and are not included in the cross or the glorious gospel of Christ. The cross is Christ being crucified for us and as us and we believe in His sacrifice by faith. When we believe by faith, we are cleansed by the blood of Christ, God imputes His free gift of righteousness and we are justified by grace and made complete in Christ.
Everything that God did to save us is imputed to us as a gift of grace because of what Christ did on the cross. In the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation / Rom 10:10. That confession is about what Christ did on the cross to make forgiveness and cleansing of all sin available to those who believe. Or, we can say this, Christ became sin for us, who know no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him / 2Cor 5:21.
Acts 16:29-34 The jailer called for lights and ran to the dungeon and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.” 32 And they shared the word of the Lord with him and with all who lived in his household. 33 Even at that hour of the night, the jailer cared for them and washed their wounds. Then he and everyone in his household were immediately baptized. 34 He brought them into his house and set a meal before them, and he and his entire household rejoiced because they all believed in God.
Believing and baptism were two separate and distinct actions. Believing was unto salvation and baptism was for identification with Christ as a new believer. The entire household rejoiced because they believed in God.
S
Another verse you can use is that of Ephisians 2:6-9. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. Baptism is a work. Works are things that we do by ourselves right? I mean it does say in Mark 16:16 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. But where does it say that if you aren't baptised you will be condemned? Only does it say if you don't believe you will be condemned. 
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