For I am not ashamed of the Gospel.

[phil36]

Romans 1:16-17

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith." (ESV)

I have started a personal study on Romans the last couple of days. However, very slowly as I am on night shift at moment. One commentary has pages just on these 2 verses. excellent stuff.

The first thing we ask are selves when reading this...

The statement paul makes 'I am not ashamed of the gospel'. so beggs the question, of what gospel is Paul not ashamed. He tells us that it is the 'power of God for salvation' so what is this power?

It is revealed through (obviously Christ), another question is ''what is the righteosness of God''? that is revealed from Faith for Faith (Faith/Faithfulness).

within these 2 verses we see what this whole book (Romans) is about.

So here are my questions for you. what is the ''righteousness of God'' what does Paul mean by the 'power of God for Salvation' and what is the universal but restricted message?


Phil

 

[MahogonySnail]

I would be ashamed of any gospel which believes some are going to heaven and some are going to hell by God's choice alone.
That is not "good news". And puts the emphasis and focus of salvation not on the cross where it should be, but on God's choice. Which makes me wonder why does one need the cross at all if they believe God has chosen them for salvation before they were born anyway?

 

[phil36]

I would be ashamed of any gospel which believes some are going to heaven and some are going to hell by God's choice alone.
That is not "good news". And puts the emphasis and focus of salvation not on the cross where it should be, but on God's choice. Which makes me wonder why does one need the cross at all if they believe God has chosen them for salvation before they were born anyway?

Ok Mahogony, your have a gripe to grind, This answer should be removed from the thread as it has nothng to do with this except malice on your part Mahogony.

What you have posted is easily answered and as I have said before it is your own faulty axiom that brings you always to a wrong conclusion.

So to get back to the post at hand, can you anser any of the question, or are you intent on axe grinding?

So tell us what do you think or know what Paul is saying in these 2 wonderful verses?


Phil

 

[MahogonySnail]

"for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes"

There's free-will/choice right there.

It does not say, "it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who is chosen".

 

[MahogonySnail]

"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel" - Paul was eager to preach it in Rome, the most heathen and powerful place he knew. Paul's gospel can be found here:


1Co 15:1 And, brothers, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you have received, and in which you stand;
1Co 15:2 by which you also are being kept safe, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures;
1Co 15:5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the Twelve.
1Co 15:6 Afterward He was seen by over five hundred brothers at once, of whom the greater part remain until this present day, but also some fell asleep.
1Co 15:7 Afterward He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all He was seen by me also, as one born out of time.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles and am not sufficient to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace which was toward me has not been without fruit, but I labored more abundantly than all of them; yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it was I or they, so we preach, and so you believed.
1Co 15:12 But if Christ is proclaimed, that He was raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Christ been raised.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation is worthless, and your faith is also worthless.
1Co 15:15 And we are also found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified of God that He raised Christ; whom He did not raise if the dead are not raised.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ is not raised.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not raised, your faith is foolish; you are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then also those that fell asleep in Christ were lost.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept.
1Co 15:21 For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
1Co 15:24 then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy made to cease is death.
1Co 15:27 For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him.
1Co 15:28 But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all things in all.

 

[phil36]

"for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes"

There's free-will/choice right there.

It does not say, "it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who is chosen".

Ok lets focus on one statement:

EVERYONE WHO BELEIVES.. now read that very slowly and think about what it says..

Phil

 

[MahogonySnail]

It means everyone who puts their trust in Christ shall be saved.

So simple isn't it? when we read the plain truth of scripture, without putting into it our doctrines of man aka Calvinism.

If someone is doing the believing for you Phil, and you haven't believed yourself, then you probably aren't saved. It's a choice you have to make yourself, no one can believe for you, not even God.

 

[phil36]

It means everyone who puts their trust in Christ shall be saved.

So simple isn't it? when we read the plain truth of scripture, without putting into it our doctrines of man aka Calvinism.

If someone is doing the believing for you Phil, and you haven't believed yourself, then you probably aren't saved. It's a choice you have to make yourself, no one can believe for you, not even God.

I totally agree that, it is for those who believe and not everyone. this statment is universal yet restricted to those saved.

And you are totally correct, no one can believe for us, I couldnt agree more,. I think the place we disagree at is, the fact that I belive that God has chosen those who will be saved and how this is done, for anyman to believe his heart has to be changed, this is the born again part, from this we exercise Faith etc.


Id better go this boats needing loaded lol.

Phil

 

[pickles]

I realize this is a debate about two different theologies. Im not one to follow ether as all men have some failier and I have enough of my own without adding anothers.
But as I have been reading through the Ot now , and Paul letters, I see that all are called and can be saved. God Our Father changed his mind many times in the Ot for various reasons.
Jesus said he came to save that which is lost and died for all men.
The more I read and believe in obediance I see that we have no business thinking we can know the mind of God Our Father.
There are so many teachings in the word that seem to contradict one teaching from the other. Yet, I see both as true.
Not because I can claim to understand , but because these are the acts and words of God Our Father.
There are scriptures that make me wonder that the lost will only be those that absolutly refuse Jesus.
Then others that make me wonder if only the few if any will succeed in Jesus.
The conclusion Ive come to see is that this is because it is not our judgment, But Our Lord Gods that will decide.
All I do know is that each time I see or read scripture that causes me to question or be afraid. I must humble myself and give this in faith to Jesus.
By doing this I find peace and know in my heart in Jesus that all is answered.
It is not about what we decide that gains us entry to eternal life, but that which is given and Judged by God.
Otherwise we would be running around doing this and that, or constanly be argueing about what we know as being the only way and thinking this is it!
Jesus already did what gains us eternal life, he said what we need to do.
No one can come to the Father unless he accept me.
IN him we live every day trusting that God Our Father places our feet where they need to be. As Jesus said, I am the way, the truth the light!
God Our Father made his word as he did so that the only one that can claim to know the way is Jesus.
The rest is witness.

smiles and God bless, pickles

 

[charisenexcelcis]

There is a broad gospel, which is the story of Jesus, thus Mark begins his gospel by saying "The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." Then there is the narrow gospel. "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to Scriptures." I Corinthians 15:1-4.