Jesus forgives all sin?

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JayJ

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Nov 1, 2009
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#21
Apparently murder is unforgivable too or so I have heard.
 
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Definition_Christ

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#22
Not true, God used murderers mightily. Paul used to murder Christians.

Acts 7
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;
58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.

Acts 13:9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him

Galations 1
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.


It also does not matter the sin, sin is all the same in God's eye no matter how "little" we think a certain sin is.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

1 John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
 
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Jan 8, 2009
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#23
well, Paul never actually killed anyone. No where does the bible actually say Paul was a murderer or call him such. He aided in the killing of stephen, and no doubt approved of it, but he never picked up a stone as far as the bible says. Paul's main job was to commit people to prison rather than murder them. (Acts 22:20 Paul wasn't a regular murderer like Jack the Ripper, they were only doing according to the customs of his time. When they stoned people, they did so according to the law of moses, of those who blaspheme the name of the Lord:
Lev 24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.
Paul/Saul is really a poor example of an actual murderer, but is rather an example of religious fanaticism and capital punishment according to their religion. He's an example of being an accomplice to killing out of ignorance and misplaced religious zeal for God, rather than murder in the first degree sense.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#24
To be accurate according to the bible, this is what Paul referred to himself as before his conversion (note, he never says he was a murderer):

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who strengthened me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry--
1Ti 1:13 the one who before was a blasphemer and a persecutor and insolent. But I obtained mercy, because being ignorant, I did it in unbelief.

blasphemer -
persecutor -
insolent -

Not a murderer.

The thing is, if Paul had been a willful sinner before his conversion, he probably never would have been chosen for the ministry. As Paul said:

"But I obtained mercy, because being ignorant, I did it in unbelief. "


As the great theologian Albert Barnes says on this verse in his commentary:

"It is undoubtedly true that persons who sin ignorantly, and who regard themselves as right in what they do, are much more likely to obtain mercy than those who do wrong designedly."
 
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#25
So we see that Paul's case is not exactly the story of a hardened willfull mass murderer converted by the grace of God and suddenly propelled into full time ministry, as many christians today suppose.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#26
1 John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

If you are persecuting someone do you think he had hate in his heart? Not to mention you failed to prove that Paul has never murdered anyone. You just submitted a theory on how you believe he never did but no evidence to support it.

Also you completely failed to reply to the statement "Apparently murder is unforgivable too or so I have heard".

As the great Apostle Paul says.
"But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant"
(1 Corinthians 14:38)
 
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happynGod

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#27
I always thought blasphemy was not accepting Christ, not believing in Him. Rejecting God.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#28
I always thought blasphemy was not accepting Christ, not believing in Him. Rejecting God.
No, go to the last post on page one I gave a short explanation of what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.
 
May 21, 2009
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#29
For those who are in Christ Jesus there remains no more condemnation for them... This is the important line. Those who are in Christ Jesus, meaning the ones who are doing all they can to be close to God and be like God. We will be forgiven any and all sins if we ask and if we don't keep doing terrible things all the time. The unforgiving sin is to not except Jesus as Lord. There are many people who say they are children of God but they hate someone. Thats not really a child of God. He says don't hate and he says forgive.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#30
For those who are in Christ Jesus there remains no more condemnation for them... This is the important line.
It is, but we have to quote the rest of the verse ''who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit''. Those who claim to be in Christ Jesus who are walking after the fklesh will be condemned unless they repent.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#31
1 John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

If you are persecuting someone do you think he had hate in his heart? Not to mention you failed to prove that Paul has never murdered anyone. You just submitted a theory on how you believe he never did but no evidence to support it.

Also you completely failed to reply to the statement "Apparently murder is unforgivable too or so I have heard".

As the great Apostle Paul says.
"But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant"
(1 Corinthians 14:38)
You have not shown that Paul himself ever killed anyone. In the stoning of Stephen he never picked up a stone. And no where else does it say Paul ever murdered anyone. Despite the popular presumption amongst many Christians - Paul never called himself a murderer, and no where in scripture does it say Paul was a murderer.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#32
Mahogony, are you actually trying to argue that murder is unforgivable?
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#33
No I'm arguing that Paul was not a murderer in the sense of which it is normally thought (no where in the bible does it say he killed anyone, if you can find such a verse please post it). Murder is forgiveable, but Paul is not the best case to use to show that. Particularly when Paul attributes God's mercy, to his own ignorance. If Paul was not so ignorant, it is likely that God would not have chosen him. Paul was a person who persecuted people thinking that he was obeying and loving God. He was very zealous for God. So it's hardly your average neighbourbood murderer conversion case who get a kick out of killing.
 
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Indra

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#34
What exactly is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and why is it the only unforgivable sin?
Because if you reject the Holy Spirit, you shall die. It's that simple. The only salvation is through being born again, which is done by the Holy Spirit. So if you reject the Gospel, you reject Jesus. If you reject the Gospel, you also reject the Holy Spirit. That is what is meant by the passage.
 
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Buddee

Guest
#35
Question for D_C: If Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is "to reject the saving Grace which Jesus died upon the cross to give to all mankind." and it is indeed unforgiveable...

Well...weren't we all guilty of that, isn't all of mankind guilty of that, at some point before coming to Christ?

And if we were, then ALL our sins couldn't haven't been forgiven, IF in fact this is what Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit truly is.

Do you realize the implications in that?
 
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Buddee

Guest
#36
How about it, Definition_Christ, you still out there?
 
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jesus_be4_religion

Guest
#37
The person who knows Christ then rejects him it would be better he had not known him at all. The bible makes it clear if a believer turns his back on Christ this is the blasphemy which is unforgiveable.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#38
Question for D_C: If Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is "to reject the saving Grace which Jesus died upon the cross to give to all mankind." and it is indeed unforgiveable...

Well...weren't we all guilty of that, isn't all of mankind guilty of that, at some point before coming to Christ?

And if we were, then ALL our sins couldn't haven't been forgiven, IF in fact this is what Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit truly is.

Do you realize the implications in that?
No there is a difference between utterly rejecting God's grace and just putting it off.If Jesus said it's the unforgivable sin, I think I'll believe Him. It's unforgivable.

The person who knows Christ then rejects him it would be better he had not known him at all. The bible makes it clear if a believer turns his back on Christ this is the blasphemy which is unforgiveable.
True.
 
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Buddee

Guest
#39
No there is a difference between utterly rejecting God's grace and just putting it off.If Jesus said it's the unforgivable sin, I think I'll believe Him. It's unforgivable.
Oh I believe in exactly what Jesus said.
It IS unpardonable, just as He says.
Never questioned that for a single moment.

What I question is your interpretation of what it is exactly that constitutes "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in the first place.

Because what Jesus did not say was that it was "utterly rejecting God's grace".

All, yes ALL of us at one time totally rejected His Grace. And I'd wager many of us did so in a rather...demonstrative manner. Both in word and deed.

But that sin has been cleansed. The slate is clean.

Read the text, D_C, the whole chapter of Matthew 12.
What does it say? What took place there?

Therein lies your answer.
 
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