Physics anyone? time as 4th dimension?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

psalm6819

Guest
#1
I have a basic knowledge of quantam physics but I'm interested in elasticity of time, any input?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
18,125
880
113
#2
As a man thinks so is he. Sow, (think) of flesh to flesh reap corruption. Sow to the Spirit of God (truth) reap life everlasting, Quantum Physics very interesting, kind of goes along with the Matrix Movies, intersting
I know Emotions can steal, kill ,and destroy, yet God came to earth through Son to give new life in the Spirit not the flesh for man when first born is of the flesh is selfish and does not want to die, yet learns 100% of us die and that has not been improved upon except by Christ, who is risen forever more, so yes as man accepts things he denies things, quite interesting and has a lot of truth in it, quantum Physics, was that not started or expanded on by Einstein?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
18,125
880
113
#3
Well personally i see God the creator and Father of Christ as sitting outside of time, unconfined to it as we are confined to it, ,when I think we should not be. A deep subject ready to hear from you as well
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,945
13,917
113
#4
via relativity, "perceived time" is elastic - a-la Lorentz contraction etc. but modern physics is still done under the assumption that there is an universal "standard clock" which an observer in an inertial frame could reference with a constant speed of light. that the speed of light in a vacuum is constant, has always been constant, and always will be constant is a fundamental assumption for all physics.
only in the very small (quantum) and the very large (cosmology) is that assumption ever really important. as far as i know, there isn't a coherent theory of a micro or macro scale that allows the passage of time to fluctuate - the value for c is a "standard candle" for the passage of time, so any theory that allows for (reference - not observed) c to vary is effectually one in which time itself varies. for example hyperinflation cosmology relaxes other physical assumptions, to account for a perceived expansion, but doesn't assume the universal time clock "slowed down" to allow the universe to stretch the perceived amount in the perceived time-frame. instead it supposes space itself was able to defy limits imposed by c.

the thing about "elasticity of time" as a conception is that time doesn't "exist" -- it's a measurement not based in any physical medium - it's still a little sketchy if a photon is a 'physical' thing or not, but that's not quite what i mean - time isn't a thing that is observed, but a measuring stick by which observations are made. at least in the way (most) physics treats it, though you may have a different view.

how would you differentiate between a second being slightly longer or shorter, and the speed of light being slightly slower or faster? or between either of those and space itself stretching or contracting, causing a (constant speed) photon to travel a longer or shorter distance? commonly accepted physics discards the idea that the measuring stick could change length, assumes the photon in the absence of other forces does not change speed, and measures such an effect (not the perceived effect in a relativistic sense, but any absolute difference) as expansion.
 
S

st_sebastian

Guest
#5
In considering alternative views of the universe, I have a hard time accepting anything other than eternalism, the block universe. The future and past already exist and time is subjective experience, mediated through memory. Plausible "histories" are encoded as memories, records, etc., but we didn't travel through these any more than we will travel through the future.

We are here, always have been here, and will never be anywhere else. There are other, very similar people out there, but they're not us any more than my 32 year old self is my 14 year old self.

Because disordered (high entropy) states are more common than ordered states, it appears that entropy usually increases over time, but this is just because at one "end" of the universe there's a highly ordered state. This asymmetry is no more intrinsic than noting you had coffee on your desk this morning but no longer do. Someone might notice this and assume that time has passed, but your coffee didn't cause time to pass.

Hence, past -> future is the comparison of states with lower and higher probabilities, respectively. Or that's the only thing I've been able to come up with.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
18,125
880
113
#6
There is more to Heaven and earth than what meets the eye Haratio!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
18,125
880
113
#7
For a day is missing in King Hezekiah time, the day the earth stood still, So I know God can do all things even as John said to those Pharisees God can turn these rocks into Jews. God can do whatever God decides, and thankfully God is a Merciful God
Thanking God through Christ daily
For God is my Quantum Physics
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#8
1 John 3:2 KJV Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be : but we know that, when He shall appear , we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as he is .


It was this verse which piqued my curiosity. We know that Jesus had a body- Thomas touched it, we know He ate, He had a mode of travel that is unknown to us. I believe all science ultimately only proves God's existence and reveals His excellence. Homebound, yes, Einstein's theory of general relativity is what sparked my interest in the idea of time being elastic and I totally agree with you that the Lord exists outside of time (hence the Alef-Tav, the Alpha and Omega, He who was and is and is to come) reference posts 2,3 &7. Thanks for your reply Psalms :)
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#9
via relativity, "perceived time" is elastic - a-la Lorentz contraction etc. but modern physics is still done under the assumption that there is an universal "standard clock" which an observer in an inertial frame could reference with a constant speed of light. that the speed of light in a vacuum is constant, has always been constant, and always will be constant is a fundamental assumption for all physics.
only in the very small (quantum) and the very large (cosmology) is that assumption ever really important. as far as i know, there isn't a coherent theory of a micro or macro scale that allows the passage of time to fluctuate - the value for c is a "standard candle" for the passage of time, so any theory that allows for (reference - not observed) c to vary is effectually one in which time itself varies. for example hyperinflation cosmology relaxes other physical assumptions, to account for a perceived expansion, but doesn't assume the universal time clock "slowed down" to allow the universe to stretch the perceived amount in the perceived time-frame. instead it supposes space itself was able to defy limits imposed by c.

the thing about "elasticity of time" as a conception is that time doesn't "exist" -- it's a measurement not based in any physical medium - it's still a little sketchy if a photon is a 'physical' thing or not, but that's not quite what i mean - time isn't a thing that is observed, but a measuring stick by which observations are made. at least in the way (most) physics treats it, though you may have a different view.

how would you differentiate between a second being slightly longer or shorter, and the speed of light being slightly slower or faster? or between either of those and space itself stretching or contracting, causing a (constant speed) photon to travel a longer or shorter distance? commonly accepted physics discards the idea that the measuring stick could change length, assumes the photon in the absence of other forces does not change speed, and measures such an effect (not the perceived effect in a relativistic sense, but any absolute difference) as expansion.
Greetings PH, I'm still a neophyte so please be easy with my lack of knowledge. Space isn't a vacuum and we live in space. Space has particles, particles have charges that's impedence which implies conductivity or some variation which could alter the speed of light. I have to read more about quarks.

When you referenced universal clock I rabbit trailed down a study about time dilation and atomic clocks ie,The National Institute of Standars and Tech in Boulder, Co. and Royal Observatory in Greenwich, England. Is time the fourth dimension? It can be altered by gravity, mass and acceleration. It seems as if time is the dimension which limits us. I do agree with your view of time as a meassuring stick by which observasion can be made but how accurately?

As to being able to percieve the difference in a second being shorter or longer noone would notice and most wouldn't give a hoot but there's always that person like me that has "what if?" Thank you for your response. Psalms

I think in Job it talks about God streching out the heavens
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#10
In considering alternative views of the universe, I have a hard time accepting anything other than eternalism, the block universe. The future and past already exist and time is subjective experience, mediated through memory. Plausible "histories" are encoded as memories, records, etc., but we didn't travel through these any more than we will travel through the future.

We are here, always have been here, and will never be anywhere else. There are other, very similar people out there, but they're not us any more than my 32 year old self is my 14 year old self.

Because disordered (high entropy) states are more common than ordered states, it appears that entropy usually increases over time, but this is just because at one "end" of the universe there's a highly ordered state. This asymmetry is no more intrinsic than noting you had coffee on your desk this morning but no longer do. Someone might notice this and assume that time has passed, but your coffee didn't cause time to pass.

Hence, past -> future is the comparison of states with lower and higher probabilities, respectively. Or that's the only thing I've been able to come up with.
Hello, SS. I, too, believe time is subjective hence my interest in it. I beleive we are here "now" but I don't necessarily believe that we will always inhabit this earth as we now know it. The second law of Thermaldynamics (entropy) unequivocally demonstrates how finite our universe is. My reading about space and the speed of light fluctuating was what brought the topic to mind and I wondered what other people thought. (or if stuff like this even crosses thier minds)

It is expands the imagination and boggles the mind to think of what God has prepared for us. Thank you for your kind reply. Psalms.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
18,125
880
113
#11
The second law of Thermal dynamics:
Heat travels form a warmer place to a colder place.
Sp when one is heating their house and it is colder outside, one opens the door what happens or what does it always feel like happened after opening the door?
Does it feel like the cold came in?
When in truth the heat left out to he cold, and is why it is not really good to trust what one feels, emotions can and do mislead to entrapment of the flesh
Truth releases one to freedom, truth, the whole truth is in Christ, and the freedom of worry, stress, unto God's righteousness we share, participate in, by Thanksgiving and praises