Put off sin & Put on Christ

[shad]

Yes that too. I don't know why people need to make things so difficult.



If it has nothing to do with repentance then please tell me why Christ came saying "repent!..." and why repentance features throughout the new testament in the apostle's evangelism and preaching? First, understand what the word repentance means, secondly ,dont' make things so difficult. The Gospel is simple. "Repent and believe the good news." You have a problem with that? Your problem, not mine.

Ms, you leave out the 'good part' of what you believe concerning repentance. If a person sins after they have believed upon Christ for salvation, and they do not repent of their sin, they will lose their salvation and die in their sin and never see the kingdom of God. That is what you believe the scriptures teach, is it not, or have you changed your convictions? Who is making it difficult?

 

[charisenexcelcis]

This issue is about having the proper attitude toward sin in my life. Sin is like a mouse in the house. It may seem inevitable, but it is never acceptable--just ask my wife. I don't believe that it is so easy to separate emotion from repentance. In some ways the presence of sin in my life reminds me of my salvation and my repentance of it brings back the memory of the great relief when the burden of sin was lifted off my shoulders. This is my bottom line: no fear, no condemnation, no libertinism.

 

[greatkraw]

in my previous house i found the mouses to be quite clever

but now i have a cat

 

[charisenexcelcis]

in my previous house i found the mouses to be quite clever

but now i have a cat

Perhaps a sign of the end times will be when the mice start hunting the cat.

 

[MahogonySnail]

That is essentially what scripture teaches Shad, but to say that repentance is not important as you do, and trivialise it, is not from God. I know that for a fact.

 

[livingbygrace]

This issue is about having the proper attitude toward sin in my life. Sin is like a mouse in the house. It may seem inevitable, but it is never acceptable--just ask my wife. I don't believe that it is so easy to separate emotion from repentance. In some ways the presence of sin in my life reminds me of my salvation and my repentance of it brings back the memory of the great relief when the burden of sin was lifted off my shoulders. This is my bottom line: no fear, no condemnation, no libertinism.

Hi Charisen

What is your understanding of the verse in Hebrews that says.
But now he has appeared once and for all, at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb9:26

Also

Apart from law, sin is dead Rom7:8

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Hi Charisen

What is your understanding of the verse in Hebrews that says.
But now he has appeared once and for all, at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb9:26

Also

Apart from law, sin is dead Rom7:8

The Hebrews passage compares the earthly copies--the sacrifices made at the earthly temple--with the spiritual (but in no way less "real") fulfillment, that the heavenly or spiritual fulfillment of the types are greater than the types themselves. Rather than Jesus having to suffer over and over again--as they sacrificed at the temple over and over again--His one death on the cross was sufficient sacrifice for all sin. So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
The Romans passage is a bit trickier, but vital to our faith. Paul begins the chapter by comparing the law to a marriage where one party dies. One being dead, the other is free. What is interesting is that as he applies this to the Law and the believer. In the one sense we are dead, and freed from sin, which was by the Law. In the other sense the Law, to which we are "married" in the flesh, is now dead, freeing us to be bound in marriage to Christ (of course not in a crude earthly sense). The passage that you mention is expanding on how sin is "by the law", how the existance of the law produces sin in us as our flesh reacts in rebellion to it (thus the need for us to die as well as the Law). The Law is holy and good, but the binding of the Law, which is spiritual, produces in my old self, which is flesh, sin. It is not the fault of the Law but of my flesh.
Combined with other portions my conclusion is this: I died with Christ that I might be raised a spiritual man; the Law was nailed to the cross so that I might not again fall into slavery to sin.
What would you add to this?

 

[livingbygrace]

The Hebrews passage compares the earthly copies--the sacrifices made at the earthly temple--with the spiritual (but in no way less "real") fulfillment, that the heavenly or spiritual fulfillment of the types are greater than the types themselves. Rather than Jesus having to suffer over and over again--as they sacrificed at the temple over and over again--His one death on the cross was sufficient sacrifice for all sin. So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
The Romans passage is a bit trickier, but vital to our faith. Paul begins the chapter by comparing the law to a marriage where one party dies. One being dead, the other is free. What is interesting is that as he applies this to the Law and the believer. In the one sense we are dead, and freed from sin, which was by the Law. In the other sense the Law, to which we are "married" in the flesh, is now dead, freeing us to be bound in marriage to Christ (of course not in a crude earthly sense). The passage that you mention is expanding on how sin is "by the law", how the existance of the law produces sin in us as our flesh reacts in rebellion to it (thus the need for us to die as well as the Law). The Law is holy and good, but the binding of the Law, which is spiritual, produces in my old self, which is flesh, sin. It is not the fault of the Law but of my flesh.
Combined with other portions my conclusion is this: I died with Christ that I might be raised a spiritual man; the Law was nailed to the cross so that I might not again fall into slavery to sin.
What would you add to this?

Hi Charisen

Thanks for your answers. They are very good. I don't think I can add much to them really but I will try. Yes in the Hebrews passage Christ died once for the sins of all. He died for every sin I could ever commit. It is for us to trust in him that he did that. So in the spiritual sense we cannot be guilty of sin, if we are trusting in Jesus. This may sound ludicrous, but God does not view things as man does. But it does hinge obviously on loving God, and in our hearts trusting in His son.
What did Jesus say concerning sin?

But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Rom5:13

In regard to sin, because men do not believe in me. John16:9 This is true sin I believe in God's eyes.

In regards to the passage in Romans, I can only be guilty of wrongdoing agaoinst my country by the laws my country sets in place. If there was no law regarding not killing someone, I could commit murder and not be guilty according to the laws of the land I live in. But because I am governed by law if I break the law I can be convicted of a crime and pay a penalty for that, but I couldn't if there were no laws in the land I live in.

So in God's eyes as I am not under law I am not from His viewpoint seen as sinful

But if Christ is in you your body is dead because of sin, yet your Spirit is alive because of righteousness. Rom8:10

Our Christian life and our acceptance before God hinges on one thing, trusting in His son, and that is credited to us as righteousness. So in a spiritual sense we are not seen as having sin, because we live under a law of faith.

But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back I will not be pleased with him.
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed but of those who believe and are saved.Heb10:38:39
It is by this faith that we live far more as God wants us to. I appreciate your point about churches having to find a balance in what they teach, but unless people know that it is by faith they have their only righteousness and that by that faith and not law itself, we actuallly uphold God's laws, the cart is beong put before the horse. I believe churches have to put their faith in God's word, despite the fact that some insincere people will use it as a licence to sin. They did in Biblical times Jude4, but it didn't stop the Apostles preaching the message of grace

Abrahams faith was credited to him as righteousness and he became the Father of an everlasting covenant. But from an earthly point of view how would we at times see Abraham. He lied and said his wife was his sister, when he was in Egypt.
Our sin in a spiritual sense to me is if we look away from Jesus and follow after the flesh and not the Spirit. This to me is the battleground of our Christian life.
Of course in the flesh we inevitably will at times do wrong, so to me the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is alive because of God's law of faith in His son.

It would be impossible for us never to disobey the Ten Commamdments/moral law wouldn't it. Could we always love others as ourselves, everyone? lol
Do we never in anyway covet anything at all?

So there is no sin to accuse us before God if we trust in his son, God does not see us then as sinful in the spiritual sense, so from that point of view, without the law sin is dead.

Please tell me if you think I have erred at all in what I have written. I don't go to church and I know you are a minister, and I know your Biblical knowledge is far greater than mine. I sincerely mean this please point out if you believe anything I have written to be incorrect, you would be helping me
God Bless
-

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Hi Charisen

Thanks for your answers. They are very good. I don't think I can add much to them really but I will try. Yes in the Hebrews passage Christ died once for the sins of all. He died for every sin I could ever commit. It is for us to trust in him that he did that. So in the spiritual sense we cannot be guilty of sin, if we are trusting in Jesus. This may sound ludicrous, but God does not view things as man does. But it does hinge obviously on loving God, and in our hearts trusting in His son.
What did Jesus say concerning sin?

But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Rom5:13

In regard to sin, because men do not believe in me. John16:9 This is true sin I believe in God's eyes.

In regards to the passage in Romans, I can only be guilty of wrongdoing agaoinst my country by the laws my country sets in place. If there was no law regarding not killing someone, I could commit murder and not be guilty according to the laws of the land I live in. But because I am governed by law if I break the law I can be convicted of a crime and pay a penalty for that, but I couldn't if there were no laws in the land I live in.

So in God's eyes as I am not under law I am not from His viewpoint seen as sinful

But if Christ is in you your body is dead because of sin, yet your Spirit is alive because of righteousness. Rom8:10

Our Christian life and our acceptance before God hinges on one thing, trusting in His son, and that is credited to us as righteousness. So in a spiritual sense we are not seen as having sin, because we live under a law of faith.

But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back I will not be pleased with him.
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed but of those who believe and are saved.Heb10:38:39
It is by this faith that we live far more as God wants us to. I appreciate your point about churches having to find a balance in what they teach, but unless people know that it is by faith they have their only righteousness and that by that faith and not law itself, we actuallly uphold God's laws, the cart is beong put before the horse. I believe churches have to put their faith in God's word, despite the fact that some insincere people will use it as a licence to sin. They did in Biblical times Jude4, but it didn't stop the Apostles preaching the message of grace

Abrahams faith was credited to him as righteousness and he became the Father of an everlasting covenant. But from an earthly point of view how would we at times see Abraham. He lied and said his wife was his sister, when he was in Egypt.
Our sin in a spiritual sense to me is if we look away from Jesus and follow after the flesh and not the Spirit. This to me is the battleground of our Christian life.
Of course in the flesh we inevitably will at times do wrong, so to me the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is alive because of God's law of faith in His son.

It would be impossible for us never to disobey the Ten Commamdments/moral law wouldn't it. Could we always love others as ourselves, everyone? lol
Do we never in anyway covet anything at all?

So there is no sin to accuse us before God if we trust in his son, God does not see us then as sinful in the spiritual sense, so from that point of view, without the law sin is dead.

Please tell me if you think I have erred at all in what I have written. I don't go to church and I know you are a minister, and I know your Biblical knowledge is far greater than mine. I sincerely mean this please point out if you believe anything I have written to be incorrect, you would be helping me
God Bless
-

I appreciate what you had to say, and I see no error. I hope that you will find a good chruch, as fellowship and discipleship is part of a healthy spiritual life in Christ. Thank you for sharing.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

There were several mentions of the Hebrews passage that says to put aside the sin that "besets" you. In modern English, that means to attack or assault. As much as that might appeal to me in a certain way, the Greek does indeed mean to entangle. How would you apply that idea, of sin entangling us.

 

[ryansdaddy052606]

I may not know a lick about scripture, but I do have things figured out. A problem I see in this thread is that there are people that use the "oops, I sinned, sorry" as an escape from accountability. They must sin again and apologize, and as long as they repent they are "saved". BE ACCOUNTABLE, PEOPLE!

* do not sin the same sin again
* do not sin just because it's your first time
* do not try and excuse the sin by saying that it's already been attoned for

I'm reaping what I sowed in my own actions, but I will not allow that to somehow excuse me from not commiting the same sins again or somehow acting as if I didn't realize that what I just commited was a sin. It is my belief that we are either inherently good or inherently bad, and we "iknow" right from wrong. I'll stop now

 

[charisenexcelcis]

I may not know a lick about scripture, but I do have things figured out. A problem I see in this thread is that there are people that use the "oops, I sinned, sorry" as an escape from accountability. They must sin again and apologize, and as long as they repent they are "saved". BE ACCOUNTABLE, PEOPLE!

* do not sin the same sin again
* do not sin just because it's your first time
* do not try and excuse the sin by saying that it's already been attoned for

I'm reaping what I sowed in my own actions, but I will not allow that to somehow excuse me from not commiting the same sins again or somehow acting as if I didn't realize that what I just commited was a sin. It is my belief that we are either inherently good or inherently bad, and we "iknow" right from wrong. I'll stop now

Thank you for sharing your experience. We are all working on the balance, neither fear nor presumption.

 

[loveschild]

WE repent then forgive ourself.

 

[greatkraw]

God forgives out guilt
WE forgive our shame

 

[livingbygrace]

I may not know a lick about scripture, but I do have things figured out. A problem I see in this thread is that there are people that use the "oops, I sinned, sorry" as an escape from accountability. They must sin again and apologize, and as long as they repent they are "saved". BE ACCOUNTABLE, PEOPLE!

* do not sin the same sin again
* do not sin just because it's your first time
* do not try and excuse the sin by saying that it's already been attoned for

I'm reaping what I sowed in my own actions, but I will not allow that to somehow excuse me from not commiting the same sins again or somehow acting as if I didn't realize that what I just commited was a sin. It is my belief that we are either inherently good or inherently bad, and we "iknow" right from wrong. I'll stop now

I don't know if you are referring to my post with your comment. I can asure you I do not believe in excusing sin. I may be unique, I honestly don't know. But for so much of my life I felt I could not be a Christian because I was too sinful a person. I constantly became crushed by my inability to live how God wanted me to live. I lived in terrible depression.
I would do the least little thing wrong, and feel I was too sinful for God. At times I literally felt suicidal because of my inability to live as I should as a Christian. However hard I tried to please God, I found sin had me in its grasp.
I only became free when I lived by faith in Jesus and stopped looking aty my own failings. When I look back I believe it was satan that kept me looking at my failings, knowing I would eventually give up with God, due to my belief I was not good enough, or worthy enough for God.

I believe satan has two main aims

1) To convince the non believer he doesn't exist
2) To convince the Christian to live under law( trying to be good enough)
Personally I believe that when we live by faith, we have far less excuse for any wrongdoing because we are living in the truth, and not in a hopeless way.

Faith brings results. No-one truly and sincerely in their heart who lives by grace through faith will use it as a licence to sin. People did in the NT Jude4, but they were not sincere.
I am far from perfect, but I live a life now far freer from the things I should not do because it is lived by faith in Jesus. That is what pleases God, and it is our only righteousness, and our only true victory. If we truly love God we will not look for a reason to excuse sin. I do love Him and am so grateful that his son died for me.
I don't think I err(I hope not anyway) from what the Apostle Paul taught. This is where I get my opinions on this subject from. I am sure he was not telling people they could excuse their sin. If I have said anything that goes against what he taught, please tell me and I will immediately retract it.

 

[Forgiven83]

I really truly dont understand what the original poster was trying to say??? How can anyone as a Christian say that repentance is separate from "putting off the old man" as it were? Thats what repentance is!!!!! My understanding of repentance is that it is two fold - it is asking for forgiveness from God AND it is turning away - the word repent literally means to turn around and walk in the other direction.

So, if this is the case what is the argument exactly? Repentance is ESSENTIAL both for keeping ourselves clean before God and also for accessing the grace and strength to not sin again. That grace is activated THROUGH repentance. I dont believe that Mahogany at any point denied the power of Grace and the blood of Jesus Christ - rather she expounded it through her eloquent affirmations of the importance of repentance in our lives.

Perhaps the original poster was referring to a different term other than repentance? At any rate, I am sure we can all agree that in order for a Christian to live right with God, in perfect harmony and in tune with the Holy Spirit, a Christian must repent of any sin in his life - asking God for forgiveness AND turning from the sin and following God instead. Perhaps we can agree on this point and be at peace and unity again