Salvation is Just the Beginning?!

[cornerstone]

Most Christians are content with salvation only, but the Bible teaches so much more-a way of life, how to make decisions based on Him, a way of life and a faith that is practical. If salvation is the "end-all" than why did Peter say to add to your faith? (virtue, knowledge, patience, temperance, godliness, brother kindness, love,etc.) There are so many things that are conditional based on our obedience after salvation? People say that God's forgiveness is unconditional. I see that very differently. He says he forgives us as we forgive others. What if we don't forgive others? What do you see as the pathway after one is saved? A called out assembly of believers called the church? Are all in the church, or is His Bride chosen out the saved? Are those "saved as if by fire" on the same par as a faithful Paul, is not He to present a Bride unblemished and spotless to the Father? I don't see that all the saved can be in His church, they are certainly in the family of God but if all are in His church who are the guests at the wedding? John the Baptist was not baptized but he called himself the friend of the Bridegroom, will he be the best man? And what of those that believed before he established his church here on earth? I know I have more questions than answers..................that's good, yes. God Bless.........cornerstone

 

[MahogonySnail]

I agree. Many only live within the realm of what is needed for their own personal salvation or the salvation of others, and stop there. But Paul in Hebrews 12 I think it was, said that these things like repentance, faith, baptisms, are the elementary teachings and the foundations, there is so much more. In fact a lot don't even do everything Paul says is foundational, such as being baptised in the Spirit. Paul encourages them to stop laying the foundations over and over because at some point they have to grow up. There was enough time for them to be teachers but they still had to be fed milk? We live in a christian society where even the salvation message itself has been reduced to a simple "believe in Jesus and you will be saved" and stops there. There needs to be discipleship, and mentoring. The bible says as part of the great commission - make disciples, it doesn't say make converts. A convert is only the first step in a lifetime of discipleship . A christian is always a disciple because they are always learning.


The typical response for a person content only with salvation is the following:
eg. if you don't need tongues to be saved, why should I bother seeking the spiritual gifts? , or e.g. if it doesn't affect my salvation if i get a tattoo, why can't i get a tattoo if I like? , or. e.g. "if I don't need to be baptised to be saved, why should I bother getting baptised?"....


The thing is, if we are only content with salvation we have to ask ourselves do we really have salvation? I have found that salvation does make a person seek spiritual things, eg the gifts, does make them want to obey God, etc etc. The attitude of rejecting anything not directly to do with getting yourself saved, is rather self-centred but unfortunately many are happy if not content, to be at that place and never go further. Jesus did show there was a 'pecking order' in heaven. In Jesus's 12 chosen ones, only about 3 or 4 were his closest, Peter, James, John, and Andrew... you don't read much about the others. That is a matter not of relation, as Jesus was all their saviour, but fellowship - not all of them were as close to Jesus as the others in terms of friendship. Judas Iscariot would have been the least closest I guess.

 

[cornerstone]

So what is your belief on salvation? And do you believe all saved are in His church?

 

[MahogonySnail]

You can't be in His church and not saved and vice versa.

 

[cornerstone]

So you believe that all saved are in His church? Did He not call out his church on the shores of Galilee, they were counted in Acts, 120 and how do you add to a church that is universal? I know that most people place all of the saved in His church. I see all the saved as His family, but if one is not obedient to His word, is he going to be in the spotless, pure Bride that He presents to the Father? Again, I go back to, if all saved are in the church (the Bride) then who are the guests at the wedding? I know that one cannot be in His church if not saved, that is a given, but I see a separation in scripture when Jesus many times preached to the multitude but took aside his disciples for further explanations of his parables. Luke 8:9,10 for example, the beatitudes were taught to his disciples, not the multitude Matt. 5:1,2, *Mark 4:1011,33,34 in particular ??

 

[pickles]

I encourage you to continue to seek Jesus in every way that he calls you. The wonders and gifts he gives are beyond mesure. To walk with Our Lord Jesus is a joy, love and understanding that is great beyond words. Each day I look to Jesus and have done so all my life. There were some bumps along the way but to know him in this way is truelly the hearts desire and more. God bless, pickles

 

[MahogonySnail]

So you believe that all saved are in His church? Did He not call out his church on the shores of Galilee, they were counted in Acts, 120 and how do you add to a church that is universal? I know that most people place all of the saved in His church. I see all the saved as His family, but if one is not obedient to His word, is he going to be in the spotless, pure Bride that He presents to the Father? Again, I go back to, if all saved are in the church (the Bride) then who are the guests at the wedding? I know that one cannot be in His church if not saved, that is a given, but I see a separation in scripture when Jesus many times preached to the multitude but took aside his disciples for further explanations of his parables. Luke 8:9,10 for example, the beatitudes were taught to his disciples, not the multitude Matt. 5:1,2, *Mark 4:1011,33,34 in particular ??

Firstly, I find it ironic that the original post which starts with "Most Christians are content with salvation only, but the Bible teaches so much more-a way of life" turns into a thread discussing salvation , but that's my sense of humor .

Secondly, I'm familiar with some of the ideas which try to separate believers into various groups, but I don't think scripture allows for that. I don't believe there is any distinction between "believers who are disobedient" and "believers who are obedient" - if a person is a believer they share in all the same promises of God , for God is no respector of persons.

Thirdly, you asked if one is not obedient, are they still part of the spotless bride? Well the answer is yes, because what makes the bride spotless is the blood of the lamb, not our own works. Believers are sprinkled by the blood of Christ and sanctified by the Spirit.

Fourthly, to consider who are the guests at the wedding who have wedding garments? That is none other than believers who have been washed in Christ's blood. Christ is the wedding garment which the guests wear, not being found in their own righteousness but the righteousness of Christ. Gal 3:27 talks about "putting on Christ" which is a nice analogy to putting on a wedding garment. The King is God the Father, the Son is Jesus , the bride are those already saved (His church), the ones invited first were the Jews, the guests invited later are the gentiles i.e. all mankind. This is prophetic of the great commission to go into all the world and make disciples, as well as being a verbal assault against the Jews who opposed him.

Fifthly, with the disciples and the crowd following - only the disciples were saved believers. Jesus obviously taught the crowd in the hope that they too would become disciples. In fact , speaking in parables would be a good way to separate those who followed Jesus for other reasons and didnt care about what Jesus taught, and those who sought Jesus to ask him about the parables.

Lastly, if you think that being a spotless bride has anything at all to do with our own obedience and not Christ's finished work on the cross, you are mistaken - the whole premise of the Gospel is that a person cannot make themselves spotless enough, but must rely upon the righteousness of Christ.

The relevent verses are:

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
Eph 5:27 that He might present it to Himself as the glorious church, without spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that it should be holy and without blemish.

From these verses we see that it was Christ who loved and sanctified and washed us so that we might be the glorious church without spot or wrinkle.
There is no emphasis placed upon a person's obedience or disobedience other than the usual necessary baptism by water and Word (received by faith) implied in verse 26 with "washing of water by the Word", which is required to gain entrance to the kingdom and be one of His own. In short, it should be clear that it is Christ doing the washing of us - we do not wash ourselves. Likewise, in Rev 19 when it talks about the bride and the wedding, the righteousness spoken of is not their own righteousness, but the righteousness of Christ which they have received by faith.

 

[thefightinglamb]

Interesting, using analogies to go a step farther, "Do you think that a Christian can be like Peter and refuse to let the Lord wash him and still be Christian? I know that Peter changed his mind and wanted Jesus to wash everything, but I am saying is can a Christian who refused to ever be washed still make it to heaven based on Christ's blood though it never washed him?

It reminds me of a parable I read from a book a long time ago about how far heaven is from earth, and in thus book it showed all these obstacles in the way of going from earth to heaven, and the Lord can bring the man from the obstacle course to heaven, but the man can also INSIST that he do it on his own...which leads to obstacles that impede and totally block the way to heaven, and no matter what the obstacle is, even if the man journeys 10,000 miles, heaven is always infinitely far away from the obstacle that stops him...

Or a life analogy, I use to steal water from a natural spring near the house, somebody somewhat recently put up a sign that says 'water by permission only' and I would sneak when I was thirsty and get some fresh water, and it tasted so good...but the Lord hit be with what is meant by 'all sins are equal' not in magnitude, but they all throw you astray...I was throwing by life off course for water!!!!!! How silly is that? Needless to say I no longer go there, I hope temptation does not become overwhelming...but its the same with speeding in cars too...How easy is it to go the speed limit? Its about the easiest thing in the world. But everyone is failing this test for some reason...with excuses like 'Everyone goes 5mph over, or 10mph is risky but okay, but over 10mph over and you are asking for trouble...But meanwhile, we all are throwing our lives off track, I know this sounds radical, but just think how much of a different spot you would be in if you were going the speedlimit instead of speeding, and what if the Lord meant for you to be somewhere/see something if you were going the speedlimit, but because you are speeding you see nothing but your own purpose...

Done spewing...

May we follow the Lord always
tony

 

[watchmen]

So what is your belief on salvation? And do you believe all saved are in His church?

I do not believe that all people in the church are saved, however the true church is all true believers. Those that are truly saved within the church. The unsaved within the church are not part of God's true Church.